Dragon Hack

[Disemvowel]

Has anyone toyed with the dragon hack supplement? http://dragonageoracle.com/2011/05/31/d ... s-for-age/

Curious how it is working out.

[Saisei]

Huh, this must have passed me by. I'll have to take a look.

[JoJa]

Just a few quick notes as I'm the one who threw together the Dragon Hack pdf (originally just for my group, but then I figured why the heck not pass it out and see what others think.) Unfortunately I've had no feedback from folks who have actually played using these rules. My group has played all of one session, and then RL got in the way big time, but we're due to play again at the end of this month and then more regularly.

So yes, the material in the Dragon Hack book is unplaytested. It also, and by design, creates characters that are much more powerful than your average Dragon Age PC. They get racial bonuses, and class background powers on top of the base Dragon Age class. So, for instance, a dwarven barbarian is a Dragon Age warrior + dwarf bonus, +barbarian bonus. The document was created to allow folks who were having a hard time convincing their players to try out this dark-fantasy, low magic game, to give it a try -- especially players who only have played more high-powered games such as DND or Pathfinder (on which the conversion is based).

As a GM, it means you'll have to thrower some more baddies at your players in order to challenge them sufficiently, at least at higher levels. I fully intend to keep working on the document, and release a more complete version (character levels through 10, more spells, new specializations, etc.) as soon as it's ready. So, if anyone has feedback I'm always anxious to hear what works and what doesn't. You can drop me a line at one of the posts on my website, where I roll out new additions to the game.

Real life has kept me pretty busy lately, as has some of the freelance stuff I've been doing for Kobold Quarterly, which if you don't already know is the probably the best place to check out great third-party additions to the Dragon Age game, in my opinion. Chris Pramas inked an article for issue #13 on new backgrounds for Dragon Age that allow folks to play in Green Ronin's Freeport setting, and it's been going strong since. I've heard the latest issue, which should be out soon, includes rules for divine magic and stunts. I'm looking forward to it.

Oh, and if you haven't seen this, you might want to check it out.

[Saisei]

Some fantastic work. Will have to invest in the Midgard Supplement.

I posted this on DA Oracle but I just wanted to ask again: You have the that backgrounds get bonuses at level 1 and level 3. Is that the end of the bonuses or do you have more planned for level 5, 7 etc.?

Thanks again for the great work. Now I'm torn between continuing our campaign or moving to our old setting (which we used for 4e)

[JoJa]

I fully intend to present complete advancement up to level 10 for the classes already presented. In fact, if you check out earlier posts on my website (linked in previous post) You can find a rough draft of both the Ranger and the Paladin through level 10 (which is to say class powers at 5,7,9). I know I need to work on some better navigation for the site so people can easily find the race and class posts, and I'm working on it.

Working on things such as the Midgard supplement have kept me from having the time to get back to it, but once all the classes through 10 have debuted on my blog, I will recompile the book with new information. Also planned: spells for the Paladin/Cleric/Ranger etc., and new specializations modeled after the Pathfinder PREs.

Thanks for your comments.

[NeilFord]

Do you envision including any of the wonderful stuff from the Divine Talents article in Dragon Hack?

And whilst I'm here, as massive "Thank You" for putting this together and making it available. It's the perfect mashup of setting and system to get new gamers interested via more traditional fantasy tropes.

Now, back to reading...

- Neil.

[Saisei]

Heyo,

I ran a once off last night (The Exorcists from Kobold Quarterly 18 repurposed for AGE) and used your Dragon Hack.

It went well. I made a Dragonborn race as well as we were returning to our own homebrew world we used in 4e DnD. Everyone enjoyed the game and the Dragon Hack went down well. We had a few balance issues because some of the abilities seemed lifted straight from 3e with little done to balance them.

Great fun though. Before implementing it fully I think I'd wait until you'd updated or else take a crack at it with our own group. For now we're sticking with our campaign in Ferelden.

A big thanks though.

[JoJa]

Hey all,

Sorry, I don't monitor this board as well as I should.

@Neil, I don't plan to add the Divine Gifts to Dragon Hack because that version of the game has cleric and druid class backgrounds and will (eventually) have cleric- and druid-specific spell lists. That said, and because the gifts can be bestowed on any character class in AGE, a GM should feel free to add Divine Gifts to their own Dragon Hack game using the material from the article.

@Saisei, I'd love to see your Dragonborn race mockup, and also if you can remember, which were the problems that caused the most trouble for your group? Also, were the balance issues in power levels between players or between the players and the adventure. I.E., where the players too powerful for the game to be a challenge, or did some players feel out-shined by others' abilities?

I'll be clear that my first time through creating the rules, I wasn't as much worried by balancing the classes as I was presenting all the things players coming from a Pathfinder/3.5 game would expect their characters to have to keep them comfortable within the system. I've already had to do some balancing, (such as with an earlier version of the bards fascinate ability), that was too powerful in our first home game, and if you point out what things were difficulties I'm happy to take a second look at them.

But to be clear, I don't think Dragon Hack will ever be as balanced as say 4E, where class balance is of paramount importance to the system. The three base classes in Dragon Age are all pretty well balanced, but once you start larding new abilities on top of that the balance gets a little skewed. Also, and lets be honest, the game Dragon Hack is hoping to emulate is historically one of the worst for class balance. Some of that is going to creep through any conversion I fear.

So, if I could make a generalized design statement about class balance it would be: Balance is important, and I'll work hard to keep things both flavorful and fun to all players and try to balance the classes against each other, but that won't be the game's most important goal.

[NeilFord]

@Neil, I don't plan to add the Divine Gifts to Dragon Hack because that version of the game has cleric and druid class backgrounds and will (eventually) have cleric- and druid-specific spell lists. That said, and because the gifts can be bestowed on any character class in AGE, a GM should feel free to add Divine Gifts to their own Dragon Hack game using the material from the article.

Thanks for the prompt reply, it's appreciated.

Another question: was there a reason you didn't convert Gnomes?

- Neil.

[Scion of Haven]

Another question: was there a reason you didn't convert Gnomes?

- Neil.

*Shakes fist heaven-ward, face twisted with rage*
GNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMES!

[NeilFord]

Ooops! Have I started something?

- Neil.

[JoJa]

GNOOOOMEEES!

Just kidding. The truth? The truth is that in the decades of playing DnD and other games, no one - in any campaign I've ever run or played in - has ever. ever. actually played a gnome. That was not the reason they were excluded per se, but it didn't help when I was deciding whether or not to exclude them.

The reason I did exclude them is that my home game is set in the Midgard setting being developed by Open Design, and kobolds are a common race in that setting. So I thought I could substitute gnomes for kobolds and add something to the game without losing something the players at my table would be interested in playing.

I can certainly craft a gnome racial background for you and post it on my website. I'll try to have one up this weekend.

[JoJa]

Oh, and an update.

The barbarian and monk conversions through 10th level have been posted recently on the site: joshjarman (dot) net, and I added a sorting header so you can click below Dragon Hack Classes on the right side of page to get all the posts with the updated class backgrounds posted so far.

Also, as I mentioned on twitter a few moments ago, there's no real rhyme or reason for when/how I update the site. So if there's a class background you're burning to see more of (or need for an upcoming game) hit me up here, on the site, or on twitter (JoJa_rpg), and I'll get on it as best as I'm able.

Later this week I'll be posting a second take on the Monk that I hope you'll all appreciate. Thanks!

[NeilFord]

I can certainly craft a gnome racial background for you and post it on my website. I'll try to have one up this weekend.

That would be awesome but please don't do it just for me. It was more of an idle enquiry than due to some pressing need.

- Neil.

[Disemvowel]

But the Gnome is a monster. Rawr!

[Saisei]

@Saisei, I'd love to see your Dragonborn race mockup, and also if you can remember, which were the problems that caused the most trouble for your group? Also, were the balance issues in power levels between players or between the players and the adventure. I.E., where the players too powerful for the game to be a challenge, or did some players feel out-shined by others' abilities?

I'll be clear that my first time through creating the rules, I wasn't as much worried by balancing the classes as I was presenting all the things players coming from a Pathfinder/3.5 game would expect their characters to have to keep them comfortable within the system. I've already had to do some balancing, (such as with an earlier version of the bards fascinate ability), that was too powerful in our first home game, and if you point out what things were difficulties I'm happy to take a second look at them.

But to be clear, I don't think Dragon Hack will ever be as balanced as say 4E, where class balance is of paramount importance to the system. The three base classes in Dragon Age are all pretty well balanced, but once you start larding new abilities on top of that the balance gets a little skewed. Also, and lets be honest, the game Dragon Hack is hoping to emulate is historically one of the worst for class balance. Some of that is going to creep through any conversion I fear.

So, if I could make a generalized design statement about class balance it would be: Balance is important, and I'll work hard to keep things both flavorful and fun to all players and try to balance the classes against each other, but that won't be the game's most important goal.

Crap, just saw this today, sorry Joja.

First off here's the Dragonborn and Tiefling packages I designed. May need to be changed as the benefit of the race relies on stunt points.

__________________________________

Dragonborn

Add 1 to either your Strength or Willpower. Dragonborn are as fierce as they are determined.
You can read and speak Draconic and the Trade Tongue.
You gain a number of unique racial traits at character creation.

Dragon's Breath: As a Dragonborn you gain a special stunt called Dragon's Breath costing 4 stunt points. This stunt functions as the Flame Blast Spell (PG P51).

Draconic Heritage: When you receive healing (magical or mundane) you regain extra health equal to your Constitution score


Tiefling

Add 1 to either your Cunning or Willpower. Tieflings are are sharp of mind and strong of will.
You can read and speak Infernal and the Trade Tongue
You gain a number of unique racial traits at character creation.

Fire Resistance: Tiefling's gain +2 to any roll to resist or dodge fire damage.

Infernal Wrath: As a Tiefling you gain a special stunt called Infernal Wrath costing 3 stunt points. If you are attacked on the turn after using this stunt, on your following attack you gain +1 to hit and a damage bonus equal to your Willpower.

_____________________________


Regarding balance issues it was more of an observation when we looked at where the classes were going. It's hard to tell given the adventure (Exorcists from KQ #18) gives the players magical items way out of their league.

I'll ask my player who mentioned it first but I think one of the major culprits was the Warrior background for the Fighter. They end up with crazy amounts of focuses, talents and bonuses.

I think if you were gonna run with it I would say either try to rework some of the class powers so that they give the flavour of the Pathfinder abilities rather than a direct conversion (something I was guilty of when creating stunts based off the cRPG). Alternatively maybe look at peeling back some powers with the Classes themselves. Removed backstab from the Rogue class and give it to the Thief background for example.

I'll look over the pdf again and get back to you.

[JoJa]

@Saisei,

No worries. We can't watch these forums 24/7.

I like the Tiefling and Dragonborn writeups.

As for the rest, uhhhh I'm sorry but I don't understand. The fighter class background doesn't grant the player any more talents or focuses in the way a fighter gets extra feats in Pathfinder. It only increases weapon skill with a chosen weapon group and reduces armor-speed penalties. (So far). So I don't understand the critique. Sorry.

I don't see how it would be necessary to remove class features from the base class to make the different backgrounds balance. Sure an alchemist is every bit the rogue the thief is, but they get to use bombs! So why wouldn't everyone play an alchemist? Because thieves are better at being straight up, true to the concept rogues. They do more damage with their weapons (thanks to weapon finesse) while not having to split their advancement points between Dex and Str, and they'll eventually make the best skill monkeys in the game. (As an example).

But please do look over it again and I'm happy to give my thoughts on design decisions. I'm not adverse to making changes to the system, but what you've written doesn't give me as clear a picture as I need to see why it's necessary yet. Thanks.

[Saisei]

I'll be honest the critique primarily came from the player lol.

I'll look at it myself anyway but try to get him to write some stuff down.

[DMKnight]

Heya Joja,
Will be returning the favor, and looking into your project. ^^ I hope to contribute somewhat. Will be post something later this day.

[NeilFord]

Love the monk! The idea of re-skinning existing weapons is elegant and neat. Maintaining the simplicity of the AGE system is a big plus in my book.

- Neil.

[JoJa]

@Saisei,

No worries. Actually, I was thinking about this last night, and I'm wondering if I might not ultimately make the Alchemist a Mage background again. The reason I held off the first time is because by forcing them to allocate their mana points in advance for potions, (the way Pathfinder alchemists do with spell slots) they are measurably worse off than a mage who can spend mana on magic spells as they're needed in game play. What I may ultimately do is add a potion-making talent that only alchemists can take that allow for the creation of a limited list of potions (similar to the poison talent table) and then give them discounts on crafting time and cost for poisons and grenades. Other than that they would be a regular mage. It's a lot more work, which is why I'm still mulling it over. I may just do two versions of the class background and let folks pick between them, which brings me to. . .

@Neil,

Thanks! Check back tomorrow for another idea on a Monk class for AGE. It's more complicated, but I think some folks will enjoy the extra layer of complexity. Those that don't can still play the Acrobat Monk, which is why I wanted to create both.

[Disemvowel]

JoJa, I did not get to run t DA game last weekend. My group is, well, our jobs keep us out of the country at varying times and make it really difficult to get any gaming done. I am looking at starting a Meetup in my area just to gather the randoms. Feedback when I can.

[JoJa]

Disemvowel,

No worries. I know exactly how that can be. It's been since early June since my group has been able to get together, but we're remedying that next weekend.

For those who are interested, I posted a different version of the monk players can choose to try out in Dragon Hack, the Mystic, over at my site. Thanks!

[NeilFord]

Grabbed the new monk write up, going to look at it properly over the weekend.

Am working on converting a 6-Pack adventure from Postmortem Studios over to Dragon HAck to run at a minicon here in the UK in August. I have some general conversion questions, but I'll start a new thread for those.

- Neil.

[JoJa]

@Neil,

I posted a quick gnomes racial background write-up on my website here. It was quick and fun, so don't think that you made me do it. I'll roll the gnome into the next update of the pdf. Cheers.