Will the Chronicle Starter ever see the light of Day?

[aprewett]

According to my book supplier its now been pushed back to the 10 of January 2012!!!.
And here I was getting all excited about restarting a game with my son and using the Starter or should I say Stopper.

Allan

[Slynt]

Yeah, it is terribly annoying. There is no support for the game, the main page for the game I believe hasn't seen an update since it was launched, no news of a revised core rules edition, no nothing. And now GRRM has finished that lame fifth book of his, and still we will have to wait until he's done a gazillion other things I suspect before he can say "go ahead" to GR.

[Pytorb]

It will happen when it happens. As GR have said repeatedly working with other's IP means that your timescale is almost entirely not your own. As for the website, none of the websites seem to being updated so it's nothing to do with ASoIaF specifically.

Also why pitch for a revised main rulebook as the next product off the blocks (at whatever pace it can manage)? Personally if I was going to get GRRM to sign off one product in the next two years it would be either a campaign guide for different historic periods (the Blackfyre Rebellion, Dunk and Egg, Aegon's Landing, Dance of Dragons, conquest and liberation of Dorne, all spring to mind whilst not straying too far from a recognisable Westeros) or a campaign guide to the Free Cities, the Dothraki, and the rest of the continent to the East. Yes the rules and the rulebook aren't perfect (none ever are) but fixes that suit each individual game and set of players can be houseruled in (as long as they are posted on the forum for others to pick up if they want to), additional author approved semi-canon material can not

[rulandor]

I looked up an old thread, where Chris Pramas posted on May 1st this year, that the Chronicler Starter was text-approved. Although not art-approved, he then boldly stated it would look good for this summer. Perhaps he shouldn't have written that, as he probably has no influence whatsoever on the what-and-whens of art-approval.

On a sidetrack, I think it doesn't make any sense that Green Ronin maintains a separate website for every game they produce or produced, because they obviously don't have the resources to update them on a regular basis.

[kariggi]

It will happen when it happens. As GR have said repeatedly working with other's IP means that your timescale is almost entirely not your own. As for the website, none of the websites seem to being updated so it's nothing to do with ASoIaF specifically.

Also why pitch for a revised main rulebook as the next product off the blocks (at whatever pace it can manage)? Personally if I was going to get GRRM to sign off one product in the next two years it would be either a campaign guide for different historic periods (the Blackfyre Rebellion, Dunk and Egg, Aegon's Landing, Dance of Dragons, conquest and liberation of Dorne, all spring to mind whilst not straying too far from a recognisable Westeros) or a campaign guide to the Free Cities, the Dothraki, and the rest of the continent to the East. Yes the rules and the rulebook aren't perfect (none ever are) but fixes that suit each individual game and set of players can be houseruled in (as long as they are posted on the forum for others to pick up if they want to), additional author approved semi-canon material can not

Yup that's what I'd like to see as well, maybe some ideas for Sailing, and Naval Warfare. Perhaps some slight expansion into more of the "magic" style benefits.

[Pytorb]

Well it will happen when it happens turns out to be pretty soon!


Oh and here's my house rules on Sailing which I've aluded to in other threads

Boat Handling
Boat Handling is created as a new ability. All characters are however automatically be deficient in one of either Boat Handling or Animal Handling to reflect the fact that in most cultures children either grow up around boats or animals but rarely both.

The Boat Handling ability addresses the various skills and techniques to work on boats and ships. This covers everything from flimsy coracles ideal for fishing from in the marshes of the Neck to war-galleys and ocean -going longships searching for the ruins of Valyria.

The Specialities for Boat Handling are:
Small Boats - rowing, sailing and maintaining a small boat up to about four crew,
Large Boats & Ships - crewing and maintaining a large river boat or ocean going vessel, anything with a larger crew from an oared galley to an ocean going longship under sail. For example the kind of jobs that would be encompassed by the Large Boats speciality would be manning the helm (often done by the Captain or Boatswain/Quartermaster), deckhand, working in the rigging as well as virtually any other job on board ship such as maintaining ropes and sails or simple repairs. The ship's carpenter, cook, and sail-maker would have the Trade Benefit to cover their specific duties but may also have the Large Boats speciality.
Ship's Officer – carried out the duties of a ship's officer, e.g. Captain or Boatswain (Bo'sun) on a large boat or ship. These would include:

for the Captain, hiring and firing crew as well as ensuring the ship runs smoothly, pay and cash on-board ship, or managing the ships stores. Navigating the ship would done by the Captain using Survival (or Cunning with the Navigator Benefit) rather then Boat Handling. On larger or more formal vessels the Captain may be assisted by one or more Mates or even by a Navigator or Surgeon.

for the Boatswain this would include: stowing of cargo, deck crew assignments, maintenance of lines and rigging and leading fire-fighting as well as emergency repair efforts. In addition they would do ship-board discipline (with the Bo'sun doing the day-to-day discipline leaving the Captain able to act as the ultimate authority on the smooth running of the ship) and leading or repelling boarding actions, though these duties would be taken by the more senior rank of Quartermaster if the vessel is large enough or formal enough to have the role.

Survival
The speciality Orientation can also be used to navigate whilst at sea. The following additional difficulty modifiers need to be applied:
+2 - on a river or at sea whilst in sight of familiar coastline
+5 - on a river or at sea whilst in sight of unfamiliar coastline
+10 - in deep ocean, no sight of land
+2 – mist
+5 - fog

Warfare
A new Speciality - Naval Strategy. This has exactly the same game mechanics as Strategy but is for battles on board ship.

And the related Qualities:

Aloft (Ability Quality)
You are used to working up the masts of ships, on cliffs, performing on a tightrope or otherwise suspended from ropes. Add +1B when making any Agility test when suspended from (either directly attached or indirectly by holding on to) rope, combat excluded or for tying/untying knots. Precarious Surfaces are never treacherous terrain for you in normal conditions. Also your climbing speed and speed across precarious surfaces is increased by 1 yard per degree of success.

Blood of the Ironmen (Heritage Quality) modified
You claim descent from the ironmen and seawater flows through your veins. Once during every combat encounter, you may chose to ad +1D to a Fighting test. You must make this decision before you roll the dice. In addition you gain the Sea Legs Quality for free and +1B (after the Navigator benefit if you have it) to any Orientation roll at sea.

Navigator (Ability Quality)
Prerequisite: Language 3, (Decipher 1B), Boat Handling 3, and either (Orientation 1B) or Knowledge Focus - Astronomy
You are skilled in navigating, even on the featureless open ocean. Characters may substitute their Cunning Ability for their Survival ability whilst navigating at sea and convert Orientation bonus dice into test dice. Characters can read nautical charts. Many nautical charts may be written cryptically to stop their knowledge being stolen hence the Decipher requirement (though this may not be enough for the truly obscure or encrypted charts).

Sea Dog (Ability Quality)
Prerequisite: Sea Legs and Aloft
You are a sailor through and through. Add +1B to any Survival or Endurance checks aboard a ship and to Language checks at any time. Ships are never treacherous terrain for you in any circumstances and no Penalty Dice are applied to your Fighting skill in normal conditions whilst aboard a ship.

Sea Legs (Ability Quality)
You are used to working on the deck of a ship at sea. Add +1B when making any Athletics test aboard a ship. Ships are never treacherous terrain for you in normal conditions. Also, the character is immune to Sea Sickness.

[Sunu]

Awesome, I can't wait.

[rulandor]

Does this mean that the new ship rules are going to be included in the Chronicle Starter?

[Pytorb]

Only GRRM and the Green Ronin staff know for sure...

I was just posting my personal house rules in response to kariggi as one of several examples of sailing rules that are lurking on different threads in the forum.

[aprewett]

Hello,
The adventure sounds great and hopefully I should be able to slot it straight in with my similar campaign;

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10047

I have been trying to slow the game down untill this book comes out but my players seem to have latched on to the setting and rules in a nice way, and want to do more.
Currently the Greyjoy rebels have followed them down into the lowlands as they want to errase any knowledge of gold. So they have currently snuck there way into the keep under the disguise of servants of the bride for the upcoming wedding and are now just about to launch there attack on the unsuspecting occupants.

Allan

[SassyRonin]

Hey guys,

The Chronicle Starter is finally off to the printer, which means it's now available for pre-order. If you pre-order it through our online store or at a participating retailer, you can then get the PDF for just $5, or you can get the PDF by itself for $15 without the printed book.

http://www.greenronin.com/store/product/grr2706.html

I'll be updating the SIFRP page (as well as the Dragon Age one) with the current product listings.

Thanks for being patent with us as we struggle with the logistical challenges that come with a license like this.

-Evan

[Jon Snow]

Good news! I've got mine downloaded and reading it now.

[Montague]

Not to be ungrateful or anything... but why exactly should I buy this product if I already have the Campaign Guide? There's plenty of information on the six houses in the CG and the books, and being a GM for 25+ years I know how to design scenarios. Are there any new or expanded rules? New qualities? Somebody sell me on this.

[rulandor]

Not to be ungrateful or anything... but why exactly should I buy this product if I already have the Campaign Guide? There's plenty of information on the six houses in the CG and the books, and being a GM for 25+ years I know how to design scenarios. Are there any new or expanded rules? New qualities? Somebody sell me on this.

Perhaps you should download the free pdf-preview that GR offered some days ago.

The six houses in the Chronicler Starter are not part of the SIF canon, as they do not appear in the Campaign Guide. I can't remember having read about them in the novels.

Barnell, Bartheld, Dulver, Kytley, Marsten, Tullison - is there really plenty of information about them in the CG?

And not a single house in the CG is detailed according to the house creation rules, making the CS a helpful kickstarter for a new campaign.

[Abax]

Not to be ungrateful or anything... but why exactly should I buy this product if I already have the Campaign Guide? There's plenty of information on the six houses in the CG and the books, and being a GM for 25+ years I know how to design scenarios. Are there any new or expanded rules? New qualities? Somebody sell me on this.

yea same question, here our campaign has been running for a couple of years. Making a house from scratch is 90% of the fun of using the house rules, don't know why anyone would want to use a "pre-designed" one except for a very short game, and what will it add for ongoing games. Will it fix the lack of connectivity between the various house stats and expand on what can be bought for a house...I fear the book is not going to be one that aids ongoing campaigns, too late by far to be published, should have come out before the campaign guide.

[Montague]

Not to be ungrateful or anything... but why exactly should I buy this product if I already have the Campaign Guide? There's plenty of information on the six houses in the CG and the books, and being a GM for 25+ years I know how to design scenarios. Are there any new or expanded rules? New qualities? Somebody sell me on this.

Perhaps you should download the free pdf-preview that GR offered some days ago.

The six houses in the Chronicler Starter are not part of the SIF canon, as they do not appear in the Campaign Guide. I can't remember having read about them in the novels.

Barnell, Bartheld, Dulver, Kytley, Marsten, Tullison - is there really plenty of information about them in the CG?

And not a single house in the CG is detailed according to the house creation rules, making the CS a helpful kickstarter for a new campaign.

I did so, apparently I misread the blurb on the CS page that listed the big six houses (Arryn, Baratheon, Frey, Lannister, Stark, Tully).

That being said... what the hell? 26 bucks for six sample houses and a scenario? If this was WOTC or Paizo where books are flying out every month I could understand, but if proposed rulebooks are at such a premium due to scarcity of resources (read: lack of support) who in their right mind would pick a book such as this to produce NOW?

My group has six very motivated players that love this game and would pay good money for expanded rulesets, expanded fluff (approved by GRRM of course), or hell, even miniatures, something we can actually use. We don't need a book to show us how to do stuff that other rulebooks have already shown us how to do.

[Pytorb]

That being said... what the hell? 26 bucks for six sample houses and a scenario? If this was WOTC or Paizo where books are flying out every month I could understand, but if proposed rulebooks are at such a premium due to scarcity of resources (read: lack of support) who in their right mind would pick a book such as this to produce NOW?

My group has six very motivated players that love this game and would pay good money for expanded rulesets, expanded fluff (approved by GRRM of course), or hell, even miniatures, something we can actually use. We don't need a book to show us how to do stuff that other rulebooks have already shown us how to do.

Well I for one will be buying it as soon as cashflow permits in both pdf and hard copy. It should have the afore mentioned GRRM approved fluff including six houses and situations approved by GRRM for roleplay which will hopefully be good stuff.

Also the campaign I'm running is very different from the fairly static default of 'play a noble house in and around thier own lands' in that the players have crossed from Cape Wrath to the North East of the Reach and then up the Rose Road via Highgarden to Kings Landing. After three weeks of court chicanery they are now in Lys. So something like this will be incredibly useful for me should the players ever decide to (or the GM ever lets the players) settle down.

Yes it would be great to have had it years ago but that's sadly not how this game line is working. Which is the third reason I'll be buying this book. Any game line needs support from the players, especially one where management of the IP means that new material isn't coming out swiftly. IMO that's a live forum, with supportive, critical and inventive comments and more importantly good sales numbers and cash going into the game company's bank account. So, in hope for the two items on my personal wishlist, the Historical Guide to Westeros (Nymeria's founding of Dorne, Aegon's Conquest, the Dance of Dragons, the Blackfyre Rebellion, to name but four interesting time periods) and the Guide to the Free Cities and the Eastern Continent, Green Ronin will have my money eventually.

Also I feel that the delay in publication doesn't make it a bad or a pointless book, just one with less use to established campaigns playing in the same style (which is admittedly the default setting) as this.

[rulandor]

A Chronicle Starter is by definition not the first choice source for new or expanded rules or something, nice as some of those rules would be.

Similar to Pytorb's feelings, I am going to buy that book in order to support the game line. Gaming-wise, you never know when a readily developed house might come in handy for a chronicle. And also, the adventure seeds might be useful.

Concerning my own chronicle: the player characters will in the foreseeable future arrive in the Riverlands as part of the Northern host. Whether they will cross the Green Trident as part of Robb's cavalry or join their foot under Roose Bolton, they might come across one or the other adventure seed in the Chronicle Starter.

[Abax]

Has anyone bought this? (Or the PDF anyway) and can provide some feedback on whether the book expands upon the House rules in any way?

[aprewett]

Got it weeks ago, had a look, not much more to tell. I will try to contain my excitment and desire to grasp a new book if they every get another one published, assuming I am still here.
On a related topic, in this PDF accessible time, I am overwhelmed by gaming opportunities, not like 30 years ago.
I really think these companies should be working much harder to keep my interest. It does not have to be much, just something every month or so.
Coming from Harn, its Fan community production is amazing compared to ASoIaF, I would have expected a few fan web pages dedictated to the game, as that can still keep the interest level up. I thought it would be hard to find a company with a production timeline slower than the publishers of Harn, but...
Iam just going to rock on with my own version, as they say in Harn, my own PChronicle.
Allan

[Abax]

I guess that means no.

I've never played Harn but do have a mass of the books, just for the fun of owning and reading them. Been very disappointed with the the SIFR growth. Fan wise, I have seen people developing games for SIFR outside of the Green Ronin setting and there are a number of games been run on Obsidian Portal which have some good custom developments, though mainly in the theme of a story / house rules rather than "expansions".

[Irontruth]

No official SIFRPgame will ever have a lot of books or be broadly supported... not unless GRRM cedes or delegates control of the IP to someone else.

1) GRRM procrastinates a lot.
2) He's really busy.

Look at how long it took him to write the most recent book, 6 years, and he's probably going to make wheelbarrows of cash from it. He's helping write the TV show, last I heard they're giving him more episodes to this season, he's working on the next book, he still edits anthologies, he still works on other IP's, he still does tours and conventions. Wail and gnash your teeth all you like, but no RPG company would be able to produce books any faster, nor will they have the legal or financial leverage to get him to work faster. It's not Green Ronin who is frustrating you, it's George R. R. Martin.

[aprewett]

Ok, but I still would have thought GR would be able to produce some small items without the author having his finger in the design. Some NPC's, interesting small locations from Inn's to mystical spots. Something that keeps the setting alive.
Maybe GR can't, there hands might be totally tied, if so thats a pity.
I am sure the latest book will have some goodness in there, but maybe GR could follow up with some complimentry free supporting gear.

Allan

[Abax]

No official SIFRPgame will ever have a lot of books or be broadly supported... not unless GRRM cedes or delegates control of the IP to someone else.

1) GRRM procrastinates a lot.
2) He's really busy.

Look at how long it took him to write the most recent book, 6 years, and he's probably going to make wheelbarrows of cash from it. He's helping write the TV show, last I heard they're giving him more episodes to this season, he's working on the next book, he still edits anthologies, he still works on other IP's, he still does tours and conventions. Wail and gnash your teeth all you like, but no RPG company would be able to produce books any faster, nor will they have the legal or financial leverage to get him to work faster. It's not Green Ronin who is frustrating you, it's George R. R. Martin.

That's your belief, but I've yet to see anyone from Green Ronin state that they have issues creating books due to the fact that GRRM is "busy".... on top of which , FFG have no issues at all getting their LCG printed to a nice tight schedule and they are "creating" things within the world far beyond the scope of the books. So no I'm not a believer of the "it's all down to GRRM", and no I'm not a fan boy, his last book, was, politely put, pretty damn poor.

[Slynt]

I'm so happy with the Chronicle Starter PDF, the wait was long and I can't really see why GR couldn't release this without GRRM putting his grubby greedy fingers all over it, but it's here and that's great.