Combat Stances

[Koeran]

I've recently found myself thinking that combat stances would be a better way of dealing with some of the concepts in the current rules.

The Defensive Stance Stunt, along with the All-Out Attack, Guard Up, and Stand Firm Actions, all seem a little clumsy and out of place to me. Especially the minor distinctions between the Defend and Guard Up actions duration. For a game that's supposed to be simple, it really throws me that they consciously made things more complicated.

I haven't had a great deal of instruction in Martial Combat, but I have had a little in both armed and unarmed combat. And in both cases among the first things I was taught were stances. So it seems odd to me that they're frequently lacking in any rule set I see.

I was thinking of something like the following:

Stances
A character may go into a stance with an Activate Action. Only one stance may be used at a time. A character cannot be in a stance while prone or climbing. A character may combine the Activation Action to enter a stance with the Ready Action when readying a weapon/implement.

Offensive: +2 Attack/Cast. -2 Defence.

Defensive: -2 Attack/Cast. +2 Defence. (Replaces the Guard Up Action in the Set 2 Players Guide.)

Powerful: -2 Attack/Cast. +2 Damage. (Replaces the All-Out Attack Action in the Set 2 Players Guide.)

Controlled: +2 Attack/Cast. -2 Damage.

Sprint: -2 Attack/Cast. -2 Defence. +4 Speed.

Braced: -2 Speed. Can make rolls to resist being Skirmished or Knocked Prone as per the Stand Firm Action in the Set 2 Players Guide. (Replaces the Stand Firm Action.)

New Stunt

2 SP Stance Change: You may change your current stance into another stance as a Free Action.

The Defensive Stance Stunt is still relevant. Although it's name should probably be changed. Maybe to Defensive Flourish. I'm not sure about the Defend Action. I like the idea of forgoing attack to focus on defending yourself, but I think that only gaining a +2 defence for it is a bit weak. Combining it with a Defensive Stance would be quite a decent bonus though.

Essentially, instead of having to remember which action you happened to use, you just need to remember what stance you're using. As this is less likely to change as often as what actions you're taking it should be easier to remember.

Technically the Powerful and Controlled Stances replicate the same concept as the Expert Strike class feature that Warriors get. That's easily dealt with by giving Warriors something which tweaks the above Stance rules, like reducing the penalties of all stances by 1. Or maybe allowing them to use 2 stances simultaneously.

[zanwot]

You have a point, but actually I think it may be even better (ie simpler) to push the concept further: Let the stance be a unique flexible thing, so every time a charatcer takes a stance the player chooses where the -1 or -2 goes to, and where the +1 or +2 goes to, between attack, defense, damage and maybe speed. It is more or less what you do, no point in listing all the possibilities, unless if there is a particular combination to be avoided?

I would probably make it 2 in defense or attack is worth 1 in damage, but that is fine tweaking to be thought about and checked with the books.

[Admiral Yacob]

Looks interesting. I just have two questions. First, you mention casting in your descriptions, does this mean these stances would help their casting rolls? I don't think that makes as much sense in the concept as the casting roll, I always thought, seemed a bit more mental then physical (gathering the energy, reaching into the fade, etc).

Second, would it make sense for the stance to end/need to be restarted after movement? I have had limited experience with martial weapon training but I do know that if you moved more than pivoting or taking a single step, you didn't maintain the stance you were in while doing it. You would usually hold your blade (or other weapon) ready to engage move and quickly get into position as you arrive at your destination.

[Koeran]

You have a point, but actually I think it may be even better (ie simpler) to push the concept further: Let the stance be a unique flexible thing, so every time a charatcer takes a stance the player chooses where the -1 or -2 goes to, and where the +1 or +2 goes to, between attack, defense, damage and maybe speed. It is more or less what you do, no point in listing all the possibilities, unless if there is a particular combination to be avoided?

That's not a bad idea. The only concernt I'd have is while it is indeed a simpler rule, as it's less well defined you could run into problems more easily. Either someone choosing an option which doesn't work/make sense. Or, because they're not defined, it's easier to forget which option you're using mid game.

I would probably make it 2 in defense or attack is worth 1 in damage, but that is fine tweaking to be thought about and checked with the books.

I was using a static +2/-2 to keep things simpler. It may not always be balenced though. I figure that +1/-1 probably isn't enough difference to bother using the options, and +3/-3 is probably too powerful.

Looks interesting. I just have two questions. First, you mention casting in your descriptions, does this mean these stances would help their casting rolls? I don't think that makes as much sense in the concept as the casting roll, I always thought, seemed a bit more mental then physical (gathering the energy, reaching into the fade, etc).

I guess it depends on how you define casting. In DA:O, if you were an Arcane Warrior (or otherwise weilding a non-staff weapon), some spells required you to sheathe your weapons to cast them , suggesting that some spells require your hands free to guesticulate. In DA:2, there is a Templar abilty called "silence" which prevents mages from casting. So that suggests that all spells require some kind of vocalisation to cast them. Although I'm unaware of any clarification in the PnP rules.

To be honest I added it mostly because I didn't want to exclude casters from using them. As well as maintining some balance. If they didn't affect casting rolls, then a caster would always use a Defensive Stance, sine they're probalby not making any attack rolls anyway.

Personally I think the Offensive, Defensive and Sprint Stances effecting casting rolls makes sesne. Even if it's not a physical thing, it's a matter of concentration. You compromise your concentration on one task, by prioritising your focus on another.

The Controlled and Powerful Stances are trickier to justify. You could change it from a damage bonus/penalty to Spell Power, which might make more sense. But essentially I'd justify Powerful as you allowing the spell to be more volitile. Making it more potent, but harder to control. And Controlled would simply be the opposite of that.

Second, would it make sense for the stance to end/need to be restarted after movement? I have had limited experience with martial weapon training but I do know that if you moved more than pivoting or taking a single step, you didn't maintain the stance you were in while doing it. You would usually hold your blade (or other weapon) ready to engage move and quickly get into position as you arrive at your destination.

That's a good question. It's been so long since I did that kind of training I can't answer with certainty. But if I recall, you can at least maintain a descent hustle/scramble. Though you definitly couldn't sprint, and a proper run would probably break it too. I could add, "Taking a Run Major Action" as breaking a stance, with the exception of sprint stances. Although that's probably more tedium than it's worth.

I think there's enough of a mental component to stances to justify you still being in one regardless of the distance moved. As stances are largely a preemptive decision on how you wish to takle a particular situation. So the last few steps you take of any movment will be keeping the stance in mind.

[caul]

If I were going to do stances, which I might now that I'm thinking about it, I would introduce them as a new type of talent, such as:

Defensive Fighting Stance
Classes: Rogue and Warrior
Requirement: Any Weapon Style (Novice)
You have learned to fight defensively.
Novice: You focus on defense when you are fighting at a cost to your accuracy. As an activate action, you may enter the defensive fighting stance, which remains in effect until the end of the encounter, or until you take another activate action to leave the stance or enter another stance. While in the defensive fighting stance you gain a +2 bonus to Defense, and suffer a -2 penalty to all attack and spellcasting tests.
Journeyman: While in the defensive fighting stance, you may now use the Defensive Stance stunt for 1 stunt point instead of the usual 2.
Master: While in the defensive fighting stance, your bonus to Defense increases to +4.

[Loswaith]

Talent is a nice idea, though you likely dont need to mention spellcasting or mana shield given the talent can only be taken by rogues and warriors.

[caul]

Talent is a nice idea, though you likely dont need to mention spellcasting or mana shield given the talent can only be taken by rogues and warriors.

Point. Edited. Thanks.