SIFRP QUESTIONS

Talk about Green Ronin's A Song of Ice and Fire RPG, based on George R.R. Martin's best-selling fantasy series. Winter is here!

SIFRP QUESTIONS

Postby RJS » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:37 am

Here is where you should place all questions.

Limit your question to one per post. Be sure to include the page number in your post.

Thanks!

EDIT: So you know, I plan to address new questions every Monday.
Last edited by RJS on Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Knight Marshal » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:27 pm

Arrows?

MMO style of archery or someone forgot to put them and their cost in?
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Postby Woodclaw » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:59 am

Mercenaries (page 107)

I don't understand how to pay for mercenary units, the table list a +1* cost modifier to the base power cost determined by the training level, but their entry list a Wealth cost without specifing if this cost substitutes or suplements the power one.

My guess is that you have to replave the normal base power cost with the wealth cost and pay a +1 Power cost on the top of it. Am I right?
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Postby Kilted Raven » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:39 am

What are the rules to cover understrength military units in the field?

For example the Cadre quality gives a squad of 10 men with special Warfare rules, but if they enter the field they are 1/10 the size of a normal unit.
My instinct is to divide health proportionate to the number of men in the unit, but with a Squad being 10 it means a health of basically 1 or at most 2, making it vulnerable in the extreme.

Likewise you could have 2 groups of 50 Bandits, a shipful of Raiders that doesn't come up to strength., or a group of players forced to field a wounded unit before it gets a chance to return and reinforce.
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Postby Knight Marshal » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:58 am

I noticed that there is no flaw for Deception. Oversight?
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Postby kustenjaeger » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:03 am

How does the use of the tourney and war lances (table 9-3) interact with movement and with the Charge action p160 as it is normally considered that to the lance is only really effective when charging?

(a) Are the base characteristics of the lances used while moving e.g. canter not charging?
(b) If the answer to (a) is yes are the -1D to Fighting and the +2 damage applied in a Charge?
(c) If the answer to (a) is no - i.e. that the characteristics represent use in the charge - what characteristics do lances have when used mounted but not charging?
(d) Can you effectively use the lance mounted if stationary?

For what it is worth I would give a stationary lance user a -2D penalty to Fighting (difficulty in manoeuvering a long weapon) and make the damage Athletics which would tend to make the user discard the lance for a sword or similar (note that many C19 lancer units (albeit with a very different 'lance') had second ranks armed only with a sword owing to the general uselessness of a lance in melee after the initial onset).

Regards

Edward
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Postby hedgewizard » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:28 am

Don't recall seeing this one: Will ability, Courage Specialty makes mention of Fear rules/details being further explored in the Narrator chapter.

I couldn't find any rules on Fear there.
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Postby Jon Snow » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:04 pm

p. 169 Based on the descriptions of Tourney Lances and War Lances the reach of these two weapons should probably be swapped with one another.
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Postby hedgewizard » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:40 pm

Jon Snow wrote:p. 169 Based on the descriptions of Tourney Lances and War Lances the reach of these two weapons should probably be swapped with one another.
Indeed; given what Baelor Breakspear (before he was Breakspear I think) said in The Hedge Knight.
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Postby Allavandrel » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:15 am

P. 168-169: Advanced reach.

I have some problems understanding how 'Advanced Reach' works:

Under 'Reach' (p. 168-169), it says that '0 yards means you must be adjacent to the opponent to attack, 1 means ...', but under 'Effects of Reach' (p. 169) it says that 'You may still attack a foe inside or
outside of your reach up to 1 yard in either direction ...'. Which is correct?
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Postby Allavandrel » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:31 am

P. 168-169: Advanced Reach

How do you avoid a foe to get into reach, like the Red Viper did with a spear in the trial of combat against Ser Gregor Clegane?

For example: A thug armed with a knife attacks a guard armed with a spear. First, the thug moves adjacent to the guard and attacks. Then, the guard has to move two or three yards backwards in order to attack, giving the thug a Free Attack (p. 169).

It is really difficult to see the advantage of a spear, if you are not able to keep the opponent at a certain distance (equal to Reach) as long as possible.
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Postby Kilted Raven » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:45 am

A question on Weapons, specifically Maces :

The Mace description on p126 reads : "A blunt crushing weapon designed to smash armor, a mace consists of a heavy head of stone or metal set upon a wooden or metal shaft. The head is often flanged or knobbed to better penetrate armor."

On the table 9-3 Weapons on p152 the entry for Mace is one of only two weapons with no qualities associated with it.
The Mace as written seems to be underweight compared to the rest of the weapons table with inferior stats to the other 'base' weapons (Battleaxe, Longsword) and many of it's brethren (Morningstar especially has 2 extra qualities, the same damage and no training requirement).

Are Maces meant to have Shattering, Piercing or some other combination of qualities?
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Postby Allavandrel » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:20 am

Here is a situation:

The Kingsguard is ordered by King Joffrey to guard the broken gate to the Red Keep with their live. No one is allowed to enter at any circumstances. The gate to the Red Keep is 8 yards wide, so the 7 Kingsguards have to leave 1 yard open. Now, Sansa Stark wearing a purple dress and armed with a poisonous flower wants to enter and attack the King. She moves into a distance of 4 yards of the line of the heavily-armoured Kingsguards. The Kingsguards all raise their greatswords and take the 'Counterattack' action (p. 167). Then, Sansa Stark yells 'For Prince Charming' (Free action) and 'sprints' (p. 160) right through the open yard in the gateway, leaving the bulky knights without a chance to catch her.

Okay, let's look at the details:
P. 167: Counterattack did not work because it says that the '... you must make a standard attack against any opponent that engages you ...' and on p. 158 'engaged' is defined as being adjacent to your opponent, and according to the 'Advanced Reach' rules (p. 169) a greatsword cannot attack at 0 yards. Also, a greatsword has the two-handed quality (p. 152) indicating that two-hands are used unless stated otherwise - therefore, the two Kingsguards standing next to open yard could not suddenly use their hands to attack.

P. 169: There is no 'Free Attacks' because Sansa did not start her movement within reach of the Kingsguards weapons.

In sum, I guess there must be a rule or an action that allow guards to actually 'Guard' gateways, doors, drawbridges, fortifications etc.
- Should movement be automatically stopped, when you enter the reach of an opponents weapon?
- How are you allowed to move when you are within reach of an opponent?
- And how will this fit into the rules of 'Advanced Reach', where you should be allowed to attempt to keep an opponent at a distance, but the opponent should also be allowed to atttempt to move adjacent to you?
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Fast Quality

Postby SamRoswell » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:14 am

Per p.29 "The number of bonus dice can never exced the number of test dice rolled."

Per p.154 "When you make a divided attack using a Fast weapon, you gain +1B on each test. These bonus dice cannot exceed the number of test dice rolled per attack."

What benefit does a character with a maximized specialty for a weapon gain from the Fast quality?

For example, Friar Tuck had Fighting 4D, Bludgeon 4B. He decides to make a divided attack (2 attacks) with his Quarterstaff. He gains +1B for each attack, but each attack already has 2B, and since each is attack has only 2D no further bonus dice can be added, so the Fast property has no effect. In essence, as you increase skill in a weapon, the Fast property loses its value.
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Postby hedgewizard » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:08 am

Allavandrel wrote:Here is a situation:

The Kingsguard is ordered by King Joffrey to guard the broken gate to the Red Keep with their live. No one is allowed to enter at any circumstances. The gate to the Red Keep is 8 yards wide, so the 7 Kingsguards have to leave 1 yard open. Now, Sansa Stark wearing a purple dress and armed with a poisonous flower wants to enter and attack the King. She moves into a distance of 4 yards of the line of the heavily-armoured Kingsguards. The Kingsguards all raise their greatswords and take the 'Counterattack' action (p. 167). Then, Sansa Stark yells 'For Prince Charming' (Free action) and 'sprints' (p. 160) right through the open yard in the gateway, leaving the bulky knights without a chance to catch her.

Okay, let's look at the details:
P. 167: Counterattack did not work because it says that the '... you must make a standard attack against any opponent that engages you ...' and on p. 158 'engaged' is defined as being adjacent to your opponent, and according to the 'Advanced Reach' rules (p. 169) a greatsword cannot attack at 0 yards. Also, a greatsword has the two-handed quality (p. 152) indicating that two-hands are used unless stated otherwise - therefore, the two Kingsguards standing next to open yard could not suddenly use their hands to attack.

P. 169: There is no 'Free Attacks' because Sansa did not start her movement within reach of the Kingsguards weapons.

In sum, I guess there must be a rule or an action that allow guards to actually 'Guard' gateways, doors, drawbridges, fortifications etc.
- Should movement be automatically stopped, when you enter the reach of an opponents weapon?
- How are you allowed to move when you are within reach of an opponent?
- And how will this fit into the rules of 'Advanced Reach', where you should be allowed to attempt to keep an opponent at a distance, but the opponent should also be allowed to atttempt to move adjacent to you?


This seems less like errata and more like ultra-metagaming and min/maxing. The clear move for the narrator is to allow the Kingsguard to strike; unless of course, they fear the result of having attacked the young, noble daughter of one of the most powerful families in Westeros... ;)
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Re: Fast Quality

Postby Knight Marshal » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:23 am

SamRoswell wrote:Per p.29 "The number of bonus dice can never exced the number of test dice rolled."

Per p.154 "When you make a divided attack using a Fast weapon, you gain +1B on each test. These bonus dice cannot exceed the number of test dice rolled per attack."

What benefit does a character with a maximized specialty for a weapon gain from the Fast quality?

For example, Friar Tuck had Fighting 4D, Bludgeon 4B. He decides to make a divided attack (2 attacks) with his Quarterstaff. He gains +1B for each attack, but each attack already has 2B, and since each is attack has only 2D no further bonus dice can be added, so the Fast property has no effect. In essence, as you increase skill in a weapon, the Fast property loses its value.


It means the original value as I see it. A 4D attack divided into two 2D attacks becomes two 3D attacks which do not exceed the original 4D.
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Postby wycca » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:19 am

What are the movement rates for water-based vehicles? Ie, rafts, canoes, barges, ships etc when, my PC"s are using them on ponds, rivers, lakes, and the ocean?
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Postby Diplomancy » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:32 pm

My question is about the house Influence and Status rules on page 103. In the example on that page, House Orlych has Influence 35, which would suggest a Maximum Status of 4 for the house, according to Table 6-5.

One of the players, Chris, invests 20 Influence to make his character the heir of the house. If I understand correctly, that would mean that Chris's character has a maximum status of 3, the house maximum minus 1.

Another player, Nicole, invests 10 Influence to make her character the first born daughter. I think this would give her character a maximum status of 2, the house maximum minus 2. However, the footnote beneath the "Heir's Status" table indicates that you don't need to invest influence for characters with a status less than 3. Is the footnote or the example in error?

Also, when discussing first vs. second-born sons, should I read that as first vs. second-in-line to become head of the house? So, for instance, if the first-born son of the lord had died as a child, and I was playing the second-born son who was nonetheless first in line to inherit, would I need to pay 20 Influence for my character, and would I get a maximum status of the house maximum minus 1?
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Re: Fast Quality

Postby hedgewizard » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:21 pm

Knight Marshal wrote:
SamRoswell wrote:Per p.29 "The number of bonus dice can never exced the number of test dice rolled."

Per p.154 "When you make a divided attack using a Fast weapon, you gain +1B on each test. These bonus dice cannot exceed the number of test dice rolled per attack."

What benefit does a character with a maximized specialty for a weapon gain from the Fast quality?

For example, Friar Tuck had Fighting 4D, Bludgeon 4B. He decides to make a divided attack (2 attacks) with his Quarterstaff. He gains +1B for each attack, but each attack already has 2B, and since each is attack has only 2D no further bonus dice can be added, so the Fast property has no effect. In essence, as you increase skill in a weapon, the Fast property loses its value.


It means the original value as I see it. A 4D attack divided into two 2D attacks becomes two 3D attacks which do not exceed the original 4D.


I actually think Sam is right; there is no benefit if you have maxed out your bonus dice for the weapon in question. It explicitly says in the rules:

Rules p 159 wrote:You may also need to split your bonus dice, if any, as your bonus dice can't exceed your test dice.
Further, under Fast is says:
Fast p 154 wrote:These bonus dice cannot exceed the number of test dice roller per attack
Emphasis mine.

I don't think it would have specifically meant that if it weren't the case that your bonus dice was limited to the NEW, DIVIDED ranks.
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Postby Davechan » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:22 pm

Also, when discussing first vs. second-born sons, should I read that as first vs. second-in-line to become head of the house? So, for instance, if the first-born son of the lord had died as a child, and I was playing the second-born son who was nonetheless first in line to inherit, would I need to pay 20 Influence for my character, and would I get a maximum status of the house maximum minus 1?


Yup, I'm pretty sure the intent is the Eldest/Second Eldest/The Rest out of who is actually alive at the start of play. Of course, this means that any families who start with an influence of less than 20 are forced to be in danger of dying out in the male line, which can provide a fairly interesting position to play in ^_^
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Postby Diplomancy » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:41 pm

Davechan wrote:
Also, when discussing first vs. second-born sons, should I read that as first vs. second-in-line to become head of the house? So, for instance, if the first-born son of the lord had died as a child, and I was playing the second-born son who was nonetheless first in line to inherit, would I need to pay 20 Influence for my character, and would I get a maximum status of the house maximum minus 1?


Yup, I'm pretty sure the intent is the Eldest/Second Eldest/The Rest out of who is actually alive at the start of play. Of course, this means that any families who start with an influence of less than 20 are forced to be in danger of dying out in the male line, which can provide a fairly interesting position to play in ^_^


Well, actually, if I understand the Status rules correctly, that wouldn't necessarily be the case. A house with less than 20 Influence would have a Maximum Status of 3, meaning their heir, along with all other children, would have a maximum status of 2. Therefore, none of the children would have to be bought with an Influence investment, according to the footnote to the Heir's Status table on page 103. Of course, this contradicts the example, which is why I asked the question in the first part of the post your quoted.
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Postby Knight Marshal » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:13 am

Diplomancy wrote:
Davechan wrote:
Also, when discussing first vs. second-born sons, should I read that as first vs. second-in-line to become head of the house? So, for instance, if the first-born son of the lord had died as a child, and I was playing the second-born son who was nonetheless first in line to inherit, would I need to pay 20 Influence for my character, and would I get a maximum status of the house maximum minus 1?


Yup, I'm pretty sure the intent is the Eldest/Second Eldest/The Rest out of who is actually alive at the start of play. Of course, this means that any families who start with an influence of less than 20 are forced to be in danger of dying out in the male line, which can provide a fairly interesting position to play in ^_^


Well, actually, if I understand the Status rules correctly, that wouldn't necessarily be the case. A house with less than 20 Influence would have a Maximum Status of 3, meaning their heir, along with all other children, would have a maximum status of 2. Therefore, none of the children would have to be bought with an Influence investment, according to the footnote to the Heir's Status table on page 103. Of course, this contradicts the example, which is why I asked the question in the first part of the post your quoted.


As our group seems to understand it, the status points are only there for buying positions the players are actually going to play. If no one plays the heir, then no points have to be spent on him and he is an NPC.
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Postby Davechan » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:15 am

The way I read it, you have to pay the points to make them a part of your House, whether they're NPCed or PCs - this is what happens if you pick the Maester or Spet upgrades, too. (Ie, you get a person in that position regardless of whether they're played by a player or the Narrator). Also, the children are a tangible asset to the family (like it or not, marriageable daughters are "commodities" in Westeros). However, I don't think that only charging for PC positions exactly breaks the system, if that's how you prefer to do it. (As long as people don;t cheese out spending all that free Influence to boost themselves through Intrigues *grin*)
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Postby Talassa » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:36 am

Davechan wrote:The way I read it, you have to pay the points to make them a part of your House, whether they're NPCed or PCs - this is what happens if you pick the Maester or Spet upgrades, too.


Yes. That's the way I read it too. And I think it's fine.
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Table 6-4: Historical Events

Postby Talassa » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:47 am

SIRP, Chapter 6: House & Lands, Page 99, Table 6-4: Historical Events

The table uses a bell curve progression for dice results ( 3-18 ) and the Events are arranged in alphabetic order.

This produces very strange (and foul) results.

Not only are the results most penalising to newly created Houses, as some of the most recurrent results (like Doom) are supposed to be uncommon or rare.

Sorry folks, I know the Seven Kingdoms are supposed to be harsh to live in, but this combination of a bell curve with an alphabetical order list really doesn't make a lot of sense, anyway you look at it.
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