An Interesting Observation

[FickleGM]

This is a very entertaining thread, but I have noticed two things that strike me as funny/interesting:

1) The propensity for message board arguments to cross the line from discussion to redundancy is mind boggling (every message board seems to have this...).

2) This rapidly expanding thread is only serving to artificially increase this forum's post count. Only a handful of posts in this thread can be considered directly related to the success of True20, while the rest are related to people's dislike of Nisarg's attitude and the rebuttals...

BTW, my interests do lie in the success of True20 and not BR (once again, nothing against BR, I haven't seen it and have no real interest in it since I run a homebrew and for now it will remain that way).

One last thing - a person can be nice without having alterior motives .

[FickleGM]

Probably true, but still interesting.

[Tim Gray]

*takes pin*
*deflates Nisarg*

[cynic_devine]

Sorry chief that dog doesn't hunt.

You have to count the totality of both game lines forums to determine who has more posts. People talkin in the BR Companion forum are still talking about BR products.

Ok, you want to play that game, we'll play, cynic.

The sum total of ALL the blue rose fora posts works out to 3197. True20's one sole lonely forum already has 2556. That is a difference of 641 posts.

At the current rate, the True20 forum has been averaging 425 posts a month since its inception.
The Blue Rose fora have been averaging 265 posts a month since their inception.

at that rate, in about four or five months, I will be posting ANOTHER ranty diatribe on here where I will be giving you my very personal "I told you so", when once again True20 outposts Blue Rose, this time the forums as a whole.

Just because you asked for it.

Or you can just, you know, save us all the trouble and concede the fact right now, that True20's forums are more popular, to a rate of about ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY posts per month.

I win with every quality product GR puts out that I buy & get use out of.

Apparently that's not true. Apparently you have some kind of very strong vested interest in pretending that Blue Rose is more popular than True20. Strong enough that you would use almost any spin possible to deny the truth.

So your supposed unqualified support for all of GR's products is ringing a little false, given that you seem to desperately want True20 to be doing worse than it is.

RPGPundit

Assuming that True D20 Forums passes BR post count then you would be right in saying that the forums is more popular.

I show my support with my wallet. I didn't say that I support every product GR produces. I support those products which I find use of. Considering I have bought several poducts from GR (including BR, True D20, several books from the Mystic Vistas line, M&M, & a couple from the Races of Renown) , I would say I am supporting the comapny just fine.

Nisarg, you the one who admittedly has the axe to grind, not me. It was the tone of your post (well & the fact that you are wrong), that brought me to the discussion.

[FickleGM]

Assuming that True D20 Forums passes BR post count then you would be right in saying that the forums is more popular.

I'm just wondering Cynic, but why do you refer to it as True D20, instead of True20? Inquiring minds want to know...

[JongWK]

Assuming that True D20 Forums passes BR post count then you would be right in saying that the forums is more popular.

Statistically speaking, the single True 20 forum will surpass all the Blue Rose forums in 5.35 months.

True 20
Forum post count: 2565
Forum threads: 218
Average posts per thread: 11.77
Forum creation date: April 2005 (7 months)
Average posts per month: 366.43
Average threads per month: 31.14

Blue Rose (all forums)
Forum post count: 3206
Forum threads: 387
Average posts per thread: 8.28
Forum creation date: October 2004 (13 months)
Average posts per month: 246.62
Average threads per month: 29.77


On average, True 20 has 119.81 more posts per month. The Blue Rose forums have a lead of 641 posts at the moment this data was gathered. Like I said, it will take 5.35 months for the True 20 forum to surpass the Blue Rose forums.

All these statistics can (obviously) be altered by external factors, like the upcoming releases of True 20's print version and a Blue Rose sourcebook. However, I'm very much inclined to think that sales of True 20's core rules will be greater than a Blue Rose sourcebook and, therefore, will mean a bigger increase of post activity in True 20's forum.

Now, let's play a little game, just because I'm bored at work. We'll measure the Blue Rose forums' activity only between April 2005 (included) and today:

Blue Rose forums since April 2005 (included)
Forum post count: 1906
Forum threads: 205
Average posts per thread: 9.30
Average posts per month: 272.29
Average threads per month: 29.29

Note that I've taken into consideration all threads that have some post acitivity during April or later, so threads started earlier also count. This means that forum activity is even lower.

In any case, here's my analysis:
* BR's threads per month have remained roughly unchanged (a 1.6% dip, or -0.48 threads per month).
* BR's average posts per month have gone up (10.4% increase, or +25.67 posts per month).
* BR's average posts per month have gone up (12.3% increase, or +1.02 posts per thread).
* True 20's forum has had far more posts than all the Blue Rose forums in the past 7 months (2565 vs. 1906, or +659 posts, or +34.6%).
* True 20's forum has had slightly more threads than all the Blue Rose forums in the past 7 months (218 vs. 205, or +13 threads, or +6.3%).
* True 20's forum has had more posts per thread on average (11.77 vs. 9.30, or +2.47, or +26.6%).
* True 20's forum has had more posts per month on average (366.43 vs. 272.29, or +94.14, or +34.6%)
* True 20's forum has had slightly more threads per month on average (31.14 vs. 29.29, or +1.85, or +6.3%)

Conclusion: True 20's forum has more activity than all the Blue Rose forums.

[daDiceGuy]

[FickleGM]

Ok, curiousity got the best of me...I went over to the Blue Rose forum to read some of the threads that Nisarg participated in (they were easy to locate thanks to the little paddle lock symbol)...

Wow, Nisarg seems intelligent and really appears to know his subject matter. But why all the beligerence and thread de-railing rants? Obviously, this appears to be a very "squeaky" wheel type. Nisarg reminds me of one of my best friends, and the stubborn, antagonistic attitude is a quality that makes me want to punch him square in the face (I am referring to my friend, I don't know Nisarg well enough to want to punch him).

Standing up for what you believe in is one thing, but let the people who like the genre discuss it without worrying about real world ramifications. It's a game...

It almost makes me feel weird posting in a forum that may have been set up to exile Nisarg (I hope that isn't the entire purpose).

My only advice would have been to start threads about wanting a True20 forum and independent system (even if an annoying number of threads). Hijacking other threads just appeared very juvenile.

Now I am not trying to be an instigator, but am instead wondering how much we would appreciate Nisarg's comments and ideas (many/most of them being intelligent and thought-out - even if not always agreed with) if they were presented with more civility. It doesn't make you a pansy or a fake to be civil. It does make you less offensive though...

EDIT: Nisarg, upon rereading this, it looks like I am talking like you aren't around to listen. No disrespect is meant by that (I also edited the "punch him in the face" comment above to clarify who I was referring to). Anyway, take my comments for what they are worth.

[timemrick]

I'm not sure, but I think that makes Timemrick the disgruntled police chief who can't stand our antics, even though he knows we get the job done.

I refuse to give you that much credit, Nisarg.

I also refuse to participate in any more threads you start, regardless of content, and have deleted my earlier post in this one. I'll be asking the webmaster about adding an "ignore list" feature to the forums.

[Tim Gray]

I'll be asking the webmaster about adding an "ignore list" feature to the forums.

Forums need that. I note that these don't have a "report this post" button either.

As far as I can tell the only purpose of this thread is to allow Nisarg to stroke his ego in public, and to enjoy the annoyance it causes. I recommend closure.

[Nomad4life]

I believe that True 20 will go on to become a legacy of role-playing systems. (Especially if it eventually provides more detail on “modern day” setting mechanics, which is the only complaint I have against it right now.) I think it will go on to become the system that TSR once envisioned with Amazing Engine (anyone remember that one?) all those years ago; A standard set of core rules with modular settings and options available separately. Kind of like a D20 GURPS.

What I don’t get, however, is why the success of the True 20 core mechanics would in any way diminish the success of Blue Rose. There was (apparently) a market for the romantic fantasy genre of role playing games. Blue Rose capitalized on that. Even if it is “less popular” what’s the harm?

[JongWK]

I'll be asking the webmaster about adding an "ignore list" feature to the forums.

Forums need that. I note that these don't have a "report this post" button either.

Excuse me, but do you realize that if there was a "report this post" button, you and daDiceGuy would have been the first two to be reported because of this thread?

As far as I can tell the only purpose of this thread is to allow Nisarg to stroke his ego in public, and to enjoy the annoyance it causes. I recommend closure.

I would hardly call "ego stroke" debating whether this forum or Blue Rose's are more popular (read: active), and if True 20's sales have surpassed BR's.

As far as I can tell this thread has been quite productive and civilized. I've enjoyed reading Bhikku's posts, even if I didn't agree with them, for example.

I recommend not closing this thread. It will eventually die down as interest shifts to newer things, like most threads in a forum. I'm no Moderator here, but I'm also going to recommend fellow forum members to abstain from improductive, negative posting--you either positively contribute to a thread or ignore it.

[Tim Gray]

(response to Nisarg)
Censorship? Yes, if it's a thread which is only here to bolster one person's ego. Poiintless waste of space. Mind you, I haven't read it all the way through in detail so if other people have found it valuable then that's fine.

Please substantiate your accusation of personal hatred, or withdraw it and apologise.

[Tim Gray]

Excuse me, but do you realize that if there was a "report this post" button, you and daDiceGuy would have been the first two to be reported because of this thread?

Good heavens. Why?

[JongWK]

Excuse me, but do you realize that if there was a "report this post" button, you and daDiceGuy would have been the first two to be reported because of this thread?

Good heavens. Why?

I consider both posts as personal attacks against another forum member. Given that they were the first two threadcrapping attempts in a long, productive thread (8 pages so far), I'd rather skip them and carry on.

[JongWK]

To continue with the thread, I've also noticed that True 20's forum activity has surpassed most of the other Green Ronin forums. The only exceptions are Mutants and Masterminds' Atomic Think Tank (104843 posts), the M&M message archive (54633 posts) and Mythic Vistas (2675... less than a hundred posts ahead).

[reverend keith]

As far as I can tell the only purpose of this thread is to allow Nisarg to stroke his ego in public, and to enjoy the annoyance it causes. I recommend closure.

I would hardly call "ego stroke" debating whether this forum or Blue Rose's are more popular (read: active), and if True 20's sales have surpassed BR's.

As far as I can tell this thread has been quite productive and civilized. I've enjoyed reading Bhikku's posts, even if I didn't agree with them, for example.

I guess you missed Nisag's "long summary" in the very first post of the thread. I'll repeat it for you, "Green Ronin owes me a copy of True20 Print once it comes out, and the Blue Rose Swine were wrong, and I was right, as usual." If he was interested in only saying that the True20 forums and sales have surpassed Blue Rose, he didn't need to add the ego stroke and sweeping attack. Instead, he decided to attack the "Blue Rose Swine" and demand that GR owes him something. If that isn't an ego stroke, I don't know what is.

In my experience, the problem that people have with Nisarg isn't his message, but how he says it. When you cut through the noise to get at the signal, Nisarg has some very insightful commentary. I'd really love to read it, but frankly, it's not worth my time to cut through the posturing. To borrow a True20 example, if he had diplomacy as a known skill, he would have stated his point and won people over with his logic rather than expecting that pissing in someones wheaties will make them sympathetic to your point.

Then again, this is the internet. I shouldn't be surprised that someone expects to be treated with respect while simultanously referring to some of the audience as swine.