Guns in true d20?

[wildfire]

I am working a pulp 1800's fantasy game, kinda of like Deadlands with elves. I was wondering what should I use to add guns rules and rule for making fantastic machines.

[Nomad4life]

We’ve been working on adding firearms as well. So far, we’ve simply imported all the ranged weapon feats as-is from the D20 Call of Cthulhu RPG. We use converted weapons stats from CoC too.

[critter80]

I'm running a campaign set in the late 1890's myself. We took the gun feats out of D20 Modern (those that make sense to the time period, anyway), and converted the damage according to the chart at the back of the Blue Rose game. If you're looking for period weapons, check out D20 Past. It has a bunch of old guns, including information on when they were made.

[papaholdy]

True20 is esentually the Mutants and Masterminds mechnics. They have firearms. Look to the M&M books for inspiration.

[Denaes]

One thing I would steer away from is d20 Modern's awful gun feats.

A proficiency and a few feats that would give bonuses to different types of shooting/reloading would be pretty cool.

[Grim Luck]

I agree that D20 Modern doesn't have a lot of great gun feats. I do, however, like 'Double Tap'.

Other feats that could be okay for True20 include feats that allow for speed reloading, increased intimidation (when you have a gun pointed at your target), and (of course) the old standby's like improved crit.

But that's me.

[Denaes]

I agree that D20 Modern doesn't have a lot of great gun feats. I do, however, like 'Double Tap'.

Other feats that could be okay for True20 include feats that allow for speed reloading, increased intimidation (when you have a gun pointed at your target), and (of course) the old standby's like improved crit.

But that's me.

Double tap is good, but might be too good in true20. The effect would have to be looked at with regard to True20's damage system.

I could also see feats giving bonuses for things like shooting at different opponents, ricochet shots (actually maybe a feat that even allows them), and bonuses to other special maneuvers.

[zoatebix]

Go with Mutants and Masterminds or Grim Tales. I talk about how GT guns play with True20 on this page: http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 4&start=10

[Spectral Knight]

I am working a pulp 1800's fantasy game, kinda of like Deadlands with elves. I was wondering what should I use to add guns rules and rule for making fantastic machines.

For anyone who's interested, Fantasy Flight's excellent Horizon series of d20 minigames offers Spellslinger, which is very close to what's described above, and quite fun in play. It's a bit sparse on background details, but can easily be fleshed out with a little work. It's also a setting begging for True20 conversion, despite some very interesting d20 rules modifications in the book itself. Check it out at www.fantasyflightgames.com, under the listing for Horizon.

[Grim Luck]

Here's a possible write up of some gun feats for True20.

I've labled some as (Gun-Fu) meaning that they might be a bit over-the-top for your group. I do like them, howerver.

Double Tap (Martial) - When firing an automatic or semi-automatic firearm a character with this feat may choose to fire two rapid shots at a single target as a single attack. This is performed as a standard action. The character only rolls one 'hit' roll at a -1 accuracy penalty, but the damage is increased by +1. Note: Use of this feat requires that the gun being used have at least two rounds left.

Rapid Shot (General) - When firing an automatic or semi-automatic firearm a character with this feat may chose to take a full-round action to fire two shots rapidly. These shots are fired seperately, requiring two 'hit' rolls. All rolls fired in the round suffer a -2 penalty to accuracy. Obviously this requires that at least two rounds be left in the gun being fired.

Rapid Reload (General) - If the character has a clip (if using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon) or a speed reloader (if using a revolver) prepared and on their person, they may reload their weapon as a free action. Normally reloading is a move action.

Gunman's Stare (Martial) - While aiming a gun at close range at a target who believes the gun to be loaded (even if it is not) a character with this feat adds +4 to all intimidation attempts against that target.

Crowd Cover (Martial) - While engaged in combat with multiple near opponents, or where bystanders are close at hand, a character with this feat may move in and out of a crowd so as to use nearby people (and even opponents) as cover against ranged attacks. Note: If the character assigns a nearby attacker as his cover, he does not receive cover from that same attacker.

Cover Fire (General) - A character with this feat is able to take a full-round action to fire several wild shots (typically three to five) with no intention of striking any target for the purpose of intimidating opponents into losing an action and/or to draw attention away from another character's actions. The character simply takes the shot and adds his combat modifier to his intimidation or bluff check against his opponents. At the narrator's discretion, Opponents who fail to resist the intimidation/bluff are forced to take cover for the round and may be unable to make any attacks while doing so.

Guntouchable (Gun-Fu) (Martial) - When facing multiple opponents in close proximit (within 30 feet) who are aremd with ballistic weapons, a character with this feat cannot be flanked (except by opponents of a higher level). Furthermore the character also receives a 1/4 cover versus all ballistic weapon attacks made by those opponents. Note: A character must be unencumbered and fully free to move rapidly in order to make use of this feat.

Gundodgeable (Gun-Fu) (Martial) - By taking a full round action to aim, and then antoher full round action to fire, a character with this feat may take a single shot at an opponent within close range (within 30 feet)and deny them the benefits of any Dodge, Canny Dodge, or Defensive Roll feats.

Skip Shot (Martial) - By taking a full round action a character with this feat may bounce a gun shot using an appropriately placed nearby flat surface to deny a target cover. The shot is made at a -2 penalty. Likewise, the weapon damage is reduced by -2.

[Grim Luck]

'Gundodgeable'... I love that... (chuckles)

[Grim Luck]

Aw man. I hate it when a thread dies and no one tells me "good idea" or "I'd NEVER use that!"

[Matterhorn]

I'd NEVER use that!

Just kidding.
My problem with some of the D20 Modern firearms Feats is that they make feats out of things that anyone who gets some firearms training can do. I think of double-tap as a basic firearms rule, not a feat. If you want I will post some of my firearms house-rules but for me, anything related to rate of fire is rule-based not feat based. This goes for rapid fire, covering fire, cyclic (auto) fire and scope / bipod / mount / use. This is all party of the Firearms Proficiency Feat.
Gun manouvers are a whole other thing though. Guntouchable (Nice) and Rapid reload are groovy and trick shot feats like skip shot can suit if it goes with the style of the game. Other useful ones would relate to running and gunning, squad zonal shooting formations and Contact drills (ie squad / fireteam manouvers that are performed based on a certain kind of contact) Eg: `Contact Left': The SAW gunner and his ammo feeder anchor the team, laying down cover fire as everyone fans out to one side and the radio operator gets on the horn for support. The team gets a +2 bonus against intimidation or for a morale check.
Even if you aren't going for a military themed game there are plenty of possible manouver feats for 2 man teams or for solo gunning. Police train for 2 and 3 man manouvering and obviously SWAT style teams train for CQB. The kinds of bonuses that these Feats can give relates to improved defense (harder to hit), initiative bonuses (team awareness and communication), higher intimidation "Freeze Mofo!", flanking bonuses, communication and planning bonuses (try imagining putting together a plan and communicating it to a team-mate when someone is shooting at you, pretty hard without practice) and bonuses (or negated penalties) for coordinating fire and manouver with a team mate who you cannot necessarily see or talk directly to (relates to contact drills).
Anyway, that's my .45 worth.
Matterhorn.

[Grim Luck]

I'd still make rapid shot, a feat, personally. I mean, a semi-automatic might get additional shots, but I'd tack on additional penalties.

Guntouchable I also like as a feat, but (as mentioned) its probably a little over the top for some people.

Gundodgeable probably needs to be tamed down. Here's a suggested rewrite:

Gundodgeable (Gun-Fu) (Martial) - By taking a full round action and expending a point of conviction, a character with this feat may make a single shot at an opponent within close range (within 30 feet)and deny them the benefits of any of the Dodge or Canny Dodge feats.

Gunman's stare, is probably a little underpowered, but the idea was supposed to be that even other gunmen flinch at the intensity of your stare. I guess throwing something in along the lines of '...on top of situation modifiers...' to make it more useful.

Skip Shot, I'm not sure about. I don't think many people would be good at bouncing a bullet off a flat surface to deprive a target of cover.

[Matterhorn]

Lurking somewhere on my Hard-drive is a combat .doc that I wrote during a Twilight 2k v2.2 campaign from a while back. That rule set used d20s too and without going into details required way too much detail. So I wrote some rules where whether a person is firing semi-single, semi-rapid, regulated burst, rapid (multi) burst or cyclic fire to a point or area target, it is all handled by one dice roll. It determined not only if you hit your desired target but also the number of rounds that hit and the morale effects on anyone in the target area. Proved to be very popular and sure made fire-fights a scary proposition.
When I eventually get around to using True20 for a modern campaign, I plan on dusting them off. Like I wrote in my previous post, I think of all of these fire modes as something that is handled by a players Ranged Combat total, assuming they have a firearms profficiency. Maybe a military weapons proficiency would be appropriate but seperate Feats for fire-modes is way too restrictive to me. Anyone who is capable of reading this post can learn how to use just about any piece of direct fire ballistic hardware in a 1 day session. Not to claim that you would be all that good with it but you would be capable of using it. Getting better means practice and that for me is modeled by going up levels and getting a better ranged combat total.
What takes lots of time to learn before it can be used practically is manouvering in combat. Most infantry aren't scary because they are the best shots in the world, it is because they have had contact drills hammered into them constantly and they are able to act as an integrated portion of a larger unit. Same goes for tactical response units in police forces. If you have the money and the inclination you can go and spend 8 hours a day on the range for the next year and become a great shot. But a tactical team will still take you down without breaking a sweat because they know how to manouver onto you, fix you in place and envelop / flank or do pretty much whatever they want once they have contained your threat. Shooting is the easy part, manouver is the hard part. Download the US Army Snipers Field Manual and check how many pages are devoted to shooting and how many are devoted to manouvering onto the target. I am not claiming that fire drills are pointless and that markmanship is irrelevant because that is silly. But I just don't see it as Feat related in any way that seperates it from regular martial Feats like Weapon specialisation, Far Shot, etc.

What makes an armed individual or team really dangerous (in my opinion) is their ability to out-manouver their opponent(s), leave them exposed, and then put precision fire into them. So what makes the difference is the ability to manouver and counter-manouver and by enhancing that with Feats you can really draw a line between the weekend-warriors and the professionals. Over-focusing on shooting feats takes away from the element that is the major contributor to victory in a fire-fight. Afterall, poor marksmen miss, poor manouver-ers get shot.
Matterhorn.