number of attacks and what is considered an attack

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number of attacks and what is considered an attack

Postby faenril » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:49 am

By the rules, any character can only do one attack by round , except special case like two-weapon fighting, rapide strike etc.

By attacks: does this means only damaging attack: EB shot, sword strike, pistol shot etc. or does this includes others uses of powers like telekinesis (to hover someone), mimic, transfert, drain, snare, dazzle, mind control etc. ?
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Postby Demada » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:36 am

iI rule attack as being any action that requires an attack roll, a roll to hit, ranged, melee, mental, whatever. In your example, in many cases it would depend on who was targetted, a friendly target for the Telekinesis lift would not be an attack action, IMO, but an unfriendly or unwilling target would be. Dazzle and Drain are definately attack actions, unless you are doing it on a willing target, which is very rare. Same with mimic and transfer. Now, the difficult part comes with Mind Control, it does not require an attack roll, yet it is a clearly offensive move. Personally, I rule that it does not constitute an attack action, where as a GM in a game I play in ruled the opposite. It's pretty much a purely GM call.
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Re: number of attacks and what is considered an attack

Postby Strand0 » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:11 pm

faenril wrote:By the rules, any character can only do one attack by round , except special case like two-weapon fighting, rapide strike etc.

By attacks: does this means only damaging attack: EB shot, sword strike, pistol shot etc. or does this includes others uses of powers like telekinesis (to hover someone), mimic, transfert, drain, snare, dazzle, mind control etc. ?
Yes, all those. But, I would add anything that you are doing to anyone - while in combat.
ForEx - Healling. You can still only do one healing in a round. I would expect it to take the place of an attack. IMHO
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Postby horned god » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:46 pm

My understanding is you get one full round of action which is two half actions. Only one half action can be an 'attack'. The other half action is for movement or a power which is not an attack or for when you simply use a Full action. So any power, including Fatigue, Stun, Mental Blast, etc. that has a 'normal' range or more and uses the term 'ranged attack' in its description qualifies as an attack and thus if you used rapid shot you'd get two such attacks with the power in question. Whereas using 'healing' is not an attack and you are free to use with the other half action you have if you chose not to move but did in fact attack. Unless it says 'full action' under healing in which case that is a bad example and that is all you could do if using that one power. Yet, you can't necessarily use a power twice in a round even if it says 'half action'. So you can use Healing once as a power in a round, as a half action I think and the other half action you can move or attack, you could not using healing again until next round.

I would say the same about any power such as Boost, you can only boost once even though it might be a half action. I might be wrong on which power is half action, some are free actions in which case you could do that free action power AND one that required a half action.

I use the book recommended limit for free actions of 1 + Wis bonus. That is how I read the rules and how I have played it so far.
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Postby slaughterj » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:50 pm

horned god wrote:My understanding is you get one full round of action which is two half actions. Only one half action can be an 'attack'. The other half action is for movement or a power which is not an attack or for when you simply use a Full action. So any power, including Fatigue, Stun, Mental Blast, etc. that has a 'normal' range or more and uses the term 'ranged attack' in its description qualifies as an attack and thus if you used rapid shot you'd get two such attacks with the power in question. Whereas using 'healing' is not an attack and you are free to use with the other half action you have if you chose not to move but did in fact attack. Unless it says 'full action' under healing in which case that is a bad example and that is all you could do if using that one power. Yet, you can't necessarily use a power twice in a round even if it says 'half action'. So you can use Healing once as a power in a round, as a half action I think and the other half action you can move or attack, you could not using healing again until next round.


I agree with you up to the last 2 sentences. I see nothing that says Healing as a half action couldn't be used twice - got a page cite to the contrary? Otherwise it is a non-attack half action to perform, and seems like you can do it in each half action, just like you use your movement power in each half action to get 2 moves in an action.
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Postby Strand0 » Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:21 pm

I see nothing that says Healing as a half action couldn't be used twice - got a page cite to the contrary? Otherwise it is a non-attack half action to perform, and seems like you can do it in each half action, just like you use your movement power in each half action to get 2 moves in an action.
No page number on this. But it has been kicked around on the site. Any power can only be activated once a round. Mr. Kensen said :green: . BUT, it is not official.

It came up in discussion of Noncorporial: Turn it off free action, blast someone, and turn it back on. So, the idea of one use of a power comes up.
Solution: (If you what one) toheal more than one person at a time? Spend a hero point and make it area effect. :o

:idea: If a team needs more than one healing in a round, they are going to lose anyway. :lol:
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Postby horned god » Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:48 pm

Mmm looking at the book. I guess you could. Ok I am going to alter Healing and make it a 'Full' action instead of half, thus avoiding that issue as I betcha that was the power which originally came up and out of many powers in the book that is one which should not be allowed to be used so frequently. I also think i'll raise the cost of Healing to like 6pp per rank and Regen to like 4pp per rank. This way you can't have as much.

I don't have enough experience with this game to really know just how effective healing and regenerate are but it seems they can be a headache to deal with, if they are of really high ranks. If altering a power so that it was 'Full' instead of 'half' sorta helped downplay this fine by me.
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Postby slaughterj » Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:01 am

horned god wrote:Mmm looking at the book. I guess you could. Ok I am going to alter Healing and make it a 'Full' action instead of half, thus avoiding that issue as I betcha that was the power which originally came up and out of many powers in the book that is one which should not be allowed to be used so frequently. I also think i'll raise the cost of Healing to like 6pp per rank and Regen to like 4pp per rank. This way you can't have as much.

I don't have enough experience with this game to really know just how effective healing and regenerate are but it seems they can be a headache to deal with, if they are of really high ranks. If altering a power so that it was 'Full' instead of 'half' sorta helped downplay this fine by me.


Wow, those would be excessive changes! :o

Note that Healing is already only a Touch power, so it's somewhat limited (i.e., how many heroes stand around together waiting to get hit by the area effect power?). And if they used it just on one person for 2 effects in a round, thus not attacking!, what would be so significant about that?
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Postby slaughterj » Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:04 am

Strand0 wrote:
I see nothing that says Healing as a half action couldn't be used twice - got a page cite to the contrary? Otherwise it is a non-attack half action to perform, and seems like you can do it in each half action, just like you use your movement power in each half action to get 2 moves in an action.
No page number on this. But it has been kicked around on the site. Any power can only be activated once a round. Mr. Kensen said :green: . BUT, it is not official.

It came up in discussion of Noncorporial: Turn it off free action, blast someone, and turn it back on. So, the idea of one use of a power comes up.
Solution: (If you what one) toheal more than one person at a time? Spend a hero point and make it area effect. :o

:idea: If a team needs more than one healing in a round, they are going to lose anyway. :lol:


Regarding Incorporeal & not Incorporeal, I recall that discussion repeatedly, seems somewhat free-action related rather than 2 powers 1 time / round. Besides, with Rapid Shot, I can shoot someone twice in a round, and that's someone trying to avoid it! So I'm activating a power twice in a round quite readily there, and as for Healing, no attempt is being made to avoid it, so I don't see an issue...
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Postby Novac » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:19 am

This is where I run into problems, what's the most number of attacks you can get in a round in MnM?
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Postby The BLur » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:05 am

you would have to stack on multifire and autofire, with rapid strike to get the most..



how i usually do things is that you get your one attack, or other power which takes concentration. and as long as it is half or less you can still take your move. but not anything else. looking at it almost like any attack or healing or something like that would be 11/20ths of your round, and a move would be 9/20, so you can to two of those but not two of the 11/20...


hope that makes sense to more than just me
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Postby slaughterj » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:14 am

The BLur wrote:you would have to stack on multifire and autofire, with rapid strike to get the most..



how i usually do things is that you get your one attack, or other power which takes concentration. and as long as it is half or less you can still take your move. but not anything else. looking at it almost like any attack or healing or something like that would be 11/20ths of your round, and a move would be 9/20, so you can to two of those but not two of the 11/20...


hope that makes sense to more than just me


I understand what you mean, and that's how I've explained attack actions taking "a bit over half" the action in Hero, but I'm not concerned with people using Healing 2x in a round, which means no move and no attack! We have 2 general Healers in our MnM party, yet during-combat healing happens very rarely, because people simply are too busy or are too far away to do it.
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