Cthulhu - No spoiler required

[jinx]

My group is currently playing CoC with preliminary character building for MM game in future. With my mind set inbetween both games I wondered if anyone had planned out Cthulhu itself?

[horned god]

You probably won't need cthulhu himself. Cthuloid's perhaps, little minature versions maybe or Deep Ones and stuff like that or perhaps Dark Young and UNLIKE CoC characters they will be able to face off with them and probably kick much monster butt. They'd be like those npc sorcerers without the ability to go to Zero Sanity.

I'd say make up a thor level hero first, see how you like their numbers, damage, overall damage save + protection, and set the npcs you make based on that. If you know that thor can throw 36 damage at someone *ie 16 + 15 = 36 DC. That will go a long way as to setting up the final scores of your Great Old One. If that is you want to have a chance for a godlike being to fight another god-like being. Which godlike being? Odin or Thor as there is a difference in power.

[CPXB]

Ah, the powers of Cthulhu, hehe.

Who can tell? I mean, on one hand, asleep he was able to touch people's minds all across the world. That suggests that Cthulhu has a pretty good passel of psychic powers. On the other hand, in the story where he actually appears, he is discorporated by being hit by a boat, which could be construed as anticlimax. I mean, a cosmic horror being knocked for a loop by being rammed by a small ship? *harumph*

So, the idea that Cthulhu is a bad-ass has no real textual support. That is something that has been inserted by fans of Cthulhu over the years.

The real determinate should be "How tough do I want to make him?" Is the Big C going to be an actual supervillain in your game? Or will he be in the background? You've actually got a lot of room for interpretation.

[Dr Archeville]

Do like what's done in CoC -- Cthluhu annihilates/destroys/devours 1d4 PC's per round of combat. :p

On a more serious note, if statting out Big C, give him high levels in Regeneration (w/ Back from the Brink), Elasticity (w/ Protection), Flight (Draconinc Wings), Sorcery, and Drain (Wisdom; Triggered-looking at Cthulhu). Add in Amphibious, Durability, Extra Limbs (facial tentacles), and some Immunities (at least Pressure & Energy-Cold).

[mrfusion]

Get a copy of d20 CoC and do Steve K's tried and true conversion:

In my experience, the creatures from the Monster Manual are fairly easy to use in Mutants & Masterminds with just a couple slight modifications. Basically:

1) Take any ability scores the creature has over 20, divide the extra amount by two, round down and make that the creature's rank in the appropriate super-ability.

2) Give the creature a Damage saving throw bonus equal to its base Con bonus plus any natural armor bonus that it has. Subtract the natural armor bonus from its AC to calculate its new Defense. (This usually results in most monsters being easier to hit, but more difficult to hurt.)

3) Divide the creature's maximum damage by 6 (round down) and make that its damage bonus, if it exceeds the creature's base Strength bonus, otherwise just use the Str bonus.

4) Convert any spell-like or supernatural abilities the creature may have into ranks in the appropriate super-powers.

That's pretty much it. Keep in mind that this system isn't 100% exact (no conversion system is, IMHO), but it's a good ballpark. Tweak the stats as needed to get the feel of the monster right.

As an example, here's a classic comic book monster, a T-rex:

Tyrannosaurus: Huge creature; Init +1 (Dex); Defense 9 (-2 size, +1 Dex); Spd 40 ft.; Atk +13 melee (+11 dmg, bite); SV Dmg +11, Fort +15, Ref +12, Will +8; Str 20, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10. Skills: Listen +11, Spot +11. Feats: Scent. Powers: Claws +1, Super-Strength +4.

[Webhead]

I picked up the d20 Call of Cthulhu book and loved it. In the book they do stat out Cthulhu (and many of the other Great Old Ones), but there is something that I always thought it would have been amusing to see:

Great Cthulhu (or any Great Old One or Elder God)
Stats: If the players encounter Great Cthulhu, gently close the book, set it neatly before you on the table and inform them that you enjoyed running the adventure or campaign and that you would like to take a few moments to discuss what kinds of characters they would like to create for the next one.

[Crackerjack]

Now your making me want to make more characters like a teleporter/reincarnater called The Hound, and a bio-mechanical being with a human brain inside of it (courtesy of a Mi-Go brainbox).

Some good powerkits for mythos supers-
Hound of Tindalos: teleporting, anything that makes it hard to kill
Mi-Go tech: brainboxes, iceguns called Mist projectors, weird medtech
Great Race of Yith: lightning gun, mind control, any more conventional supersupersupersuper hightech tech.
Cthonian: tunnelling, telekinesis, mind control, ESP, and other psychic powers
Colour Out of Space: desintegration...cant think of anything else
Delta Green: lots of powers sourced training, devices of all sorts

anything else I missed?

[horned god]

Webhead CoC is written where the characters are fragile and I can see the GM doing that but if the GM did that in a supers game like close the book and said 'nice knowing those characters I seriously the think players of semi-godlike beings would laugh at the GM and say 'bring it on' and so the answer might not be so simple.

I know if I had a silver surfer or super man style hero I would not back down. Yet, ofcourse most real characters especially since most are PL 10 would ofcourse die in short order and thus not wasting time playing it out and closing the book like you suggest is good. And yet, why not have fun with the players and have yourself a good old fashioned player character death fest. Let your Evil GM side come out and use some of the Old Grim Tooth Trap type mentality. A good trap is one where the death factor is 5 deathskulls out of 5 death skulls.

It is probably more fun if the players do not know your going for 5 deathskulls.

[Gamskee]

I really think this all is based on the tone and power level of the game. JSA took on an Elder God and defeated it- though there wasn't direct force, nobody A) died or B) went insane.

I personally try to let the PC's win as often as possible and would allow them to beat him, by one method or another, though likeoly more planning and drama based than physical beatings.

[Dolphin]

On the other hand, in the story where he actually appears, he is discorporated by being hit by a boat, which could be construed as anticlimax. I mean, a cosmic horror being knocked for a loop by being rammed by a small ship? *harumph*

Rammed at full speed in the head will be discomforting for anyone. It only took him a few seconds to start regenerating, the boat would have been doomed if the stars ad been right and cthulhu could have persued them fully. They survived by running, a sensible idea for anyone.

I ran CoC for for about 2 years and they only ever met 2 old ones. Cthugha (sp?) who they ran from while he was busy destroying a town of his own followers and Hauster in his king in yellow form, who turned one of them into a monster and traped the rest in Carcosa. Oh and Dagon, but he doesn't count. Old ones can be met, but it needs to be a very scipted encounter, either giving them death or some chance of running away, or something especially evil like with Hauster.

I like the idea of using one in M&M. It might be worth it just to see the face on one of my players when I say 'Telikili'. It was pricesless last time.

[Webhead]

I know if I had a silver surfer or super man style hero I would not back down. Yet, ofcourse most real characters especially since most are PL 10 would ofcourse die in short order and thus not wasting time playing it out and closing the book like you suggest is good. And yet, why not have fun with the players and have yourself a good old fashioned player character death fest. Let your Evil GM side come out and use some of the Old Grim Tooth Trap type mentality.

Horned God, I was really sort of talking about a direct Call of Cthulhu game, where, as you said, the characters are very fragile. I liked the fact that stats were drawn up for the powerful beings of the Mythos, but in CoC they seem hardly neccessary. If using such elements in a supers game I think it could be a lot of fun to see what could happen in an encounter with an Old One. Powerful enough PCs just might throw Cthulhu for a bit of a loop, or at least distract him long enough to devise a plan to get away. I wasn't suggesting that meeting Cthulhu in a supers game meant 'Game Over', just thought it would be funny if they published it that way in the CoC corebook.

[Quantum]

On the other hand, in the story where he actually appears, he is discorporated by being hit by a boat, which could be construed as anticlimax. I mean, a cosmic horror being knocked for a loop by being rammed by a small ship? *harumph*

Actually, it severed his head in half but it regenerated. When the tomb sank, the water pulled him into the tomb. A good old fashioned water vortex did it. Chuhlu stats can either be from the CoC d20 game or a plot device.

[Gamer X]

For some reason, no matter the genre or system, the Mythos ALWAYS ends up in my games. It must that "taint" they talk about... Here are some things I've done in my supers games.

An evil mage found the Shining Trapezohedron and used it to open a portal to bring in the Crawling Chaos (Nyarly). Luckily, the gateway was only opened enough to conjure a servant (in this case portrayed by Annhilus - it was a Marvel SAGA game), whom the PCs defeated after a hard-won battle. While that was going on, the PC mage tried unscuccessfully to overpower the villain mage to gain control of the gemstone. Then the villain had an insight (touched by chaos?) and realized that the world would end if Narly came through. He begged the PC to help close the portal.

In a much earlier adventure, an evil sorceror wannabe called forth and made a pact with some Deep Ones to get an item of power. His tribute to the Deep Ones was some fresh, buxom coeds from the PCs hometown, one of which was a PC's girlfriend. The coeds were meant to be "brides" for the Deep Ones. Then the above evil sorceror promptly came around and stole it after murdering the guy.

There's more, but I'll have to think on it a bit.
G-X

[Gamer X]

I forgot to add my REAL point to the above anecdotes. Given the aura of malignancy and terror that surrounds the Mythos GOOs, I prefer to use them as background plot devices (rather than statted opponents) in order to maintain their all-powerful feeling.

Something I learned decades ago: If you give it stats, PCs will kill it.

Another time, a mad cultist managed to conjure down a major GOO-style giant atomic monster from the "beyond the stars". I used a few clips of movies featuring King Ghiddorah (the three-headed, lightning-breathing opponent of Godzilla) as multimedia props. Everytime Ghiddorah destroyed a building, I named it as a local building in town (the game was set locally).

Even here, the PCs fought the cultists while the Silver Surfer battled the atomic monster - it was obviously way out of the street-level characters' league and again, meant to be background stuff.

G-X

[Webhead]

Something I learned decades ago: If you give it stats, PCs will kill it.

Oh man, oh man, do I KNOW that one!

It doesn't matter how many dice, points, toys, or whatever the enemy has. PCs can find a way to kill it. Then again, I've seen a group of PCs nearly destroyed by a single kobold...

[palehorse]

Webhead said:

I've seen a group of PCs nearly destroyed by a single kobold

Look! Down in the dungeon!

It's a wyvern! It's a dragon!

No! Its.... Super Kobold!

[Revenant]

Umm..to be honest I wouldn't dare stat out the big C and his buddies, they just blow past the class of protaganists and sit firmly in the realm of plot devices and background nasties that you have to work around.
Use the good old "artifact that returns him to his crypt" ploy if you need it, but if the players have read any lovecraft (or played CoC) and have an ounce of sense then the scene your most likely to see is:-
Protector: "Dr Arcane, we failed to stop the cult and now Cthulhu has risen, what should we do?"
Dr Arcane "Fetch me these ingredients" (handing a list)
Protector: "This is for a spell to stop Cthulhu?"
Dr Arcane: "Nope, this is my long distance extradimensional escape spell"

[Dolphin]

Something I learned decades ago: If you give it stats, PCs will kill it.

And if you give the emeny a powerful magic item the PCs will steal it.

[wulf]

On a more serious note, if statting out Big C, give him high levels in Regeneration (w/ Back from the Brink), Elasticity (w/ Protection), Flight (Draconinc Wings),

Did Cthulhu ever actually fly (in the books and stories, I mean)? I know he was always depicted as having wings, but I cannot remember him ever actually FLYING - at least not in any story written by HP Lovecraft himself.

Wulf