Ogrelord wrote:If I want to buy a power that has secondary effects, and I want different extras and flaws for each secondary effect, how do I go about it?
Here's an example of an instance where this question will frequently arise:
I don't see Ghost Touch anywhere in the power. You still have to buy this as an extra just like you would with normal Incorporeal. So, when in "desolid" form, your Energy Field or EB are ineffective.arcady wrote:Incorporeal
1 immunity feat per rank
Energy Field -OR- Energy Blast
Erik Mona wrote:Force Field is supposed to be 2 points per rank, not 1. I accidentally left it off the errata. We'll get it in there soon.
Steve Kenson wrote:Power Stunts and Secondary Effects
* The power must already have a primary effect of the same type in order to add a secondary effect of that type.
* Secondary effects can’t be used or sustained at the same time as the primary effect. If the secondary effect needs to work in conjunction with the primary effect, it can't be a secondary effect. For example, if a character makes Immovability a secondary effect of Amazing Save (Damage), the character can benefit from either Amazing Save (Damage) or Immovability, but not both at once. To have the powers working at the same time, the character must add the new effect as an extra and increase the power's cost per rank.
* The secondary effect cannot have a power point cost greater than the primary effect. If the GM allows, the secondary effect may have a lower rank than the primary effect, in order to accommodate extras that increase its cost. For example, a primary effect at rank 10 costs 2 pp/rank, a total of 20 pp. A secondary effect with an extra costs 3 pp/rank, a total of 30 pp for 10 ranks, too much for a secondary effect for that primary effect. However, if the rank of the secondary effect is lowered to 6, that makes its total 18 pp, less than the primary effect, and therefore suitable. If the secondary effect had two extras, and a cost of 4 pp/rank, its rank would need to be lowered to 5, for a total cost of 20 pp.
You can generally assume that power stunts listed for the "batch" powers, as you call them, are considered secondary effects.
How does this apply to various powers?
Cosmic Power: All of the listed power stunts are secondary effects.
Element Control: All of the listed power stunts are secondary effects.
Energy Control: All of the listed powers stunts are secondary effects.
Sorcery: Each spell group is considered the base effect when determining the value of power stunts, not the entire cost of the Sorcery power. So if you want to add a spell (power stunt) to the Defensive Group, for example, it must have a cost of 2 or less per rank, just like the other powers in that group, or a reduced rank. In cases where spell group and effect category don't match up exactly, use spell group. It's up to the GM to decide which spell group a new power fits into.
You can create an extra, call it "Expanded Spells" that allows you to apply one extra to each of the spells in that Spell Group, expanding the group's cost to 3 pp.
Healing, Mental Blast, and Possession are somewhat special cases, since they are 3 pp powers (their cost was raised in the final draft and the changes weren't reflected in Sorcery). You have two options here, either consider them 2 pp powers for the purposes of Sorcery (because they are fairly common powers for sorcerers) or require them to have a lower rank than the Sorcery power, as given above.
Super-Speed: The Spinning power stunt substitutes for the initiative and dodge bonus provided by Super-Speed, granting a bonus to save against damage and snare attacks instead. The Tunneling stunt for Spinning isn't exactly a secondary effect, but it was considered a minor enough benefit to be a stunt rather than an extra.
Hope that helps clear up any confusion.
See the FAQ.voordax wrote:I don't see Ghost Touch anywhere in the power. You still have to buy this as an extra just like you would with normal Incorporeal. So, when in "desolid" form, your Energy Field or EB are ineffective.arcady wrote:Incorporeal
1 immunity feat per rank
Energy Field -OR- Energy Blast
Moleculon wrote:Hi there, this is my first posting...
One (more three) question to the Animation power: under the Animation Extras there are three Extras which raise some questions:
1. Animate Liquids: What hardness do Liquids have, if Ice has 0 (M&M p.139)? If ALL Liquids have hardness 0, then this Extra is REALLY powerful, because the animated Creatures have the Alternate Form (Liquid) Power at your power rank in Animation (=Elasticity, Swimming and Protection) and in addition, because you haven´t spend a point on hardness yet, you could animate a Colossal (or even bigger creature) and still have points to spend...
2. Animate Gasses: the same holds true to Gasses (=Incorporeal, Flight and Suffocate) + plenty of points to spent to boost the animated creature
Moleculon wrote:3. Animate Shadows: states: "They have a Strength bonus and Damage bonus equal to your power rank." I think the Damage bonus should read "Damage save bonus" or what is their hardness?
Furthermore is the (base) attack bonus the animated creatures have equal to their strength bonus, or do you have to buy this separately?
The way I read it, each version of animation has its own rules. Animate liquid and animate gas uses the alternate form power only. You don't get hardness and size, etc. Just the liquid form or gas form. There is no 'in addtion because you haven't spent a point on hardness yet...'. The alternate form power substitutes for the hardness/size.
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