Setting vs. Rules in Dragon Fist. which do you like best?

[natebot]

It's like a dream come true! Dragon Fist in print!

So what do you folks find most interesting, the setting or the rules? or their tight integration?

I used the setting for an Oriental Adventures game. I understand James Wyatt looked at DF for inspiration, yet OA's rules failed to give it that Wuxia feel. It's just no good to give all PCs extra feats like Improved Unarmed Strike and such to simulate Wuxia antics, it's not the same. Close but no hopping vampire.

As I remember the rules,campaign and setting are tightly integrated. The classes are particular to the world and the campaign's plot, as secret societies. The stunts less so, but far better then just a list of 3e feats.

I'm hoping DF retains Tiangou as a sample setting and has OGL rules that work well outside it but are still pure Wuxia (leaping around, everyone knows kung-fu, a system that encourages and rewards outrageous stunts with no fear of AoO, etc.) Include wiggle room for guns and I'll have fun with Once Upon A Time in China, Shanghai Noon, Big Trouble in Little China campaigns!


Wu Shi WuXia!
-Natebot

[Nikchick]

I'm hoping DF retains Tiangou as a sample setting and has OGL rules that work well outside it but are still pure Wuxia (leaping around, everyone knows kung-fu, a system that encourages and rewards outrageous stunts with no fear of AoO, etc.) Include wiggle room for guns and I'll have fun with Once Upon A Time in China, Shanghai Noon, Big Trouble in Little China campaigns!

OW! You just hurt my poor wittle brain, as I tried to reconcile wuxia stunts and AoO!

I personally loved Tianguo as a setting and would love to see it more fleshed out in the print version, but stunt dice were my favorite thing about the DF mechanics, hands down. I have trouble imagining the game without 'em.

Nicole

[Tenzhi]

I'm not particularly enamoured of the Stunt Dice rules... I do like the DF setting though, and I like what they were trying to do with the rules to make them suit the flavour of the setting. I guess that's what's really important - having a set of rules that seamlessly mesh with the wuxia flavoured setting.

[Bailywolf]

I don't especially care about setting all that much- I want good crunchy rules which not just allow the sort of crazy stuff seen in Wuxia film and fiction, but encourage players to act in accordance with the spirit of the genera. I would like to see a simple and serviceable setting, but nothing too extensive or intrusive.

I might even like to see a seperate setting book- like Freedom City- rather than a setting built into the main book. I've always thought a Crouching Tiger or Stormriders style MA epic would be great...set among the skyscrapers of modern Hong Kong, but with the same style and conflicts.

The current ruleset was quite neat when it was released- a genuine attempt at innovating within the old AD&D rules framework... but now with the much more flexible d20 to work with, I think the rules can be much much cooler.

Some things I would like to see:

1) A crunchy stunt system which either rewards stuntwork (with some metagame currency like hero points) or judges their effect with a rule mechanic.

2) A breakdown on wuxia style sorcery (and how closely it is tied to martial arts)

3) A good mook or mob rule

4) fast fast fast combat resolution with lots of action squeezed into a single round.

5) a Build your own martial arts system... I don't want another Exalted with a huge list of martial art moves... other than as an example. I want to be able to create (and name) my own moves, perhaps building them from generic components ("feel the wrath of my Twelve Drunken Buddha Fist!").

[Tenzhi]

Indeed. A set of guidelines to create your own martial arts styles is as important for DF as guidelines for creating your own powers were for M&M.

[Michael Heacock]

Rules are most important, to me.

Settings are a dime a dozen. And I don't like being tied down to specific settings most of the time, as detailed in rule books.

Give me a great flexible rules system, I can deal with the setting on my own.

[Lord Gwydion]

The setting is what really attracted me to the game. I could do without the stunt dice system in a d20 Dragon Fist. Skills like Tumble already cover a lot of that stuff as well. Players (and DMs) just need to know how to use them.

I want more setting information. What happens to Tianguo after Jianmin is dethroned? What are the barbarian lands like? How do Ghost Eaters control the underworld? Stuff like that.

Of course, I want more crunchy bits, like prestige classes, spells, monsters and whatnot. But I'll be buying the new DF book (or books?) for the flavor.

[Michael Heacock]

Of course, I want more crunchy bits, like prestige classes, spells, monsters and whatnot. But I'll be buying the new DF book (or books?) for the flavor.

Printed on strawberry-flavoured rice paper?

[Pilgrim]

I'd delight in seeing more setting material (studded with adventure hooks and ideas) and ideas for games ranging from an Outlaws of the Marsh style game, to The Book of the Sword, to Judge Dee inspired magistrate games before the corruption of the emperor.

Basically, I'd support which ever version (D20 or OGL) that allows this and some clarification of the stunt dice so we can get ideas of what broad areas each one covers. I'm still trying to figure out how to do Savvy stunts...

[MacBin]

I like the setting AND the rules. Can't I have both?
In a ferpect world I could incorporate both into my D&D campaign.

[Bailywolf]

IN terms of setting, I would like to see more of a setting toolkit than a writ setting... a really good GM section on running not just the action style of Wuxia, but also true wuxia stories. The narritive conventions of the genera are quite particular and need attention.

[Pagan priest]

I would like to say that while setting is important, I would like to see the rules be portable enough that I can use them in Tiangao, Kara Tur or even a "historical" China. In all likelihood, my us of these rules will be for creating wuxia characters to bring into D&D games rather than actually running a DF campaign.

I'd also like to add that I think that you should take as much time as you need to get the rules right, rather than rush them into print with mistakes. That, and I want them now!

[Chairman Aeon]

In a perpect world I could incorporate both into my D&D campaign.

In a perfect world people wouldn't care if it was compatible with D&D. They would play a game on its own merits.

The two ideas I want to use DF for are anime inspired fantasy and HK action movies. I'm not into Elven ninjas. What's next? Ultramodern Firearms in D&D games? "I attack the orcs with my +3 AK-47 of Room Sweping in full auto mode."

Iain.

[MacBin]

In a perpect world I could incorporate both into my D&D campaign.

In a perfect world people wouldn't care if it was compatible with D&D. They would play a game on its own merits.
Iain.

True. And also we wouldn't have to work or pay bills so we could spend all the time we wanted playing various different games (and all game books would be a dollar). And ice cream would grow on trees and not be fattening. And I'd know when to keep my mouth shut.

[Chairman Aeon]

In a perfect world people wouldn't care if it was compatible with D&D. They would play a game on its own merits.

True. And also we wouldn't have to work or pay bills so we could spend all the time we wanted playing various different games.

I'm half way there baybee!!!

Iain.

[Wuxia]

I personally loved Tianguo as a setting and would love to see it more fleshed out in the print version, but stunt dice were my favorite thing about the DF mechanics, hands down. I have trouble imagining the game without 'em.

Same here. The stunt dice was the main part of the mechanics that helped bringing that wacky wuxia feel into the game.

[loiosh13]

Probably late on this topic - but thought I'd pipe up anyway . . .

I always liked the fact that the rules and the setting in DragonFist worked together - both were part of making it seem wuxia-like.

The fact that the setting made it possible to have a group of players with mixed alignments was nice too - the World of Martial Arts gave a pre-made reason for mixed groups to be together (plus there's always the common enemy thing - but it was nice to have it explicit, IMHO).

Anyway - I'm firmly in the setting AND rules camp . . .

Tim

[REG]

I personally loved Tianguo as a setting and would love to see it more fleshed out in the print version, but stunt dice were my favorite thing about the DF mechanics, hands down. I have trouble imagining the game without 'em.

Same here. The stunt dice was the main part of the mechanics that helped bringing that wacky wuxia feel into the game.

Well, I played the e-book version of Chris Pramas' game, and while the stunt dice is a nifty idea (and very integral or embedded to the Dragon Fist rules), I can do without them, IMHO.

Then again, I have already been spoiled by d20 Modern and Spycraft, especially their use of Action Point/Dice.