Dragon Fist, Yaaaay! Oriental Adventures, Boooo!

[mechlord]

I have to say, After I downloaded, printed out, and read the original DF, I was impressed. I very much knew that the feat system, and reversed armor classes was coming to 3E, and implemented them immiediatly in my then 2nd ed D&D game.

I also longed for more support and further background, as I knew the stunt system was something special. It was such a great game, we all had a BLAST with it!

I will be buying DF big time and can't wait. I certainly found OA missed the mark, since at this point everyone (myself included) want to play Crouching Tiger!

I think the default setting for the game should be like a medevial fantasy setting, China/ Japan type. Mostly China as thats where Kung Fu and those Hong Kong films are originally from.

Classes Shmasses. I laugh when people dis them. They provide a great starting point, and frame of reference for anyone trying to come up with a character idea and a feel for the genre. Most settings, Wuxia included have certain "archtypes" that give the "feel" of the genre. Wizards, Warriors, Thieves, etc ARE fantasy Archtypes. With the inclusion of the skill and feat systems, I don't see how anyone is particularly "locked in" to a particular design as they leave a tremendous amount of room for customization.

Level based progression is another one I frequently see criticized. While admittedly, levels are not realistic, this is still a game. Having played a plethora of pointed based progression systems over the years I can say it plays havoc trying to determine the ability level of a group of people where points are all over the playing field, and there is no general frame of reference. How do you balance a scenario?

WOTC was wise to keep them in. M & M has Power Levels, which is also quite excellent, so I say keep that in.

I'm not so sure how I like the damage save for other genres besides Super Heroes. When you get into all the diffent types of weapons that will be brought in for a martial arts game, I LIKE my variable damage. The Damage save, while good, IMHO needs serious modification as it stands. in general a lethal PL 10 energy blast is essentially the same as a slash from a PL 10 sword, and I find that disturbing.

I think varible damage (d4s, d6s, d8s, etc) plus a base 10 as a damage save would work well in a martial arts game. The variety of dice is still the single best way to simulate the differances between a variety of weapons.

Keep the martial arts stuff from the original, but add MORE, MORE, MORE!!

Stunt system MUST stay or it ain't Dragon Fist. Based on comments I've seen in print from Chris, I am confident it will be there.

anywho, that's my 2 cents. Can't wait Chris!!

[REG]

Nope. OA did not miss the mark. It intended to be Chanbara-based.

So, I expect Dragon Fist to be Wuxia-based.

[Pagan priest]

Hmm, I'm not familiar with the term "chanbara", but I think I know what you mean. If I want to portray movies like Ran, Seven Samurai, or Yojimbo in a game, then Oriental Adventures is great. If I want Iron Monkey, or Croughing Tiger then I need something other that OA. Something like Dragon Fist D20.

[REG]

And I would gladly use DF rules for the Chinese-flavored regions of Kara-Tur (Shou Lung and Tu Lung), as well as the Korean-flavored (Koryu), and Tibet-flavored (Tabot).

And yes, Chanbara is samurai film genre, from Ran to the 47 Ronin (many of Akira Kurosawa's earlier films).

Would even use the rules for the Crossgen comic, The Way of the Rat, a sister comic to The Path.

[madmonk]

Yes, Dragon Fist d20 would be cool and welcome!

[Pagan priest]

Oh, how about adding an Arabian Adventures type thing into the mix: Oriental Adventures, Dragon Fist D20, Al Qadim D20, we could have the whole Silk Road!

So, do we have any chance at seeing Arabian Adventures Rules Done Right?

[Nikchick]

So, do we have any chance at seeing Arabian Adventures Rules Done Right?

Al Qadim was my personal favorite of the D&D settings. Although WotC has decided not to license out any more of their settings (ala Ravenloft), I'd personally be a BIG fan of an Arabian Adventures project here.

But that's just one woman's opinion.

Nicole

[madmonk]

Woman are always right!
I think al-qadim adventures were the best from D&D 2ed. The only think similar to arabian adventures is some avalanche press stuff; great jade and steel book but I can not get the arabian book

[Mindquake]

Just a few thoughts

I can see and agree where Mechlord is coming from

I agree with you statement about classes being a good place to start but in the same token disagree especailly with regards to D&D. The big one is all the mumbo jumbo about cross class skills the differant points cost depending on when you buy them for a multiclassed character. While true skill based systems have been around other then special abilities for D20 and the cheaper class skills, what is a class.

I think it is good for someone that might be totally clueless or just the casual gamer that says here I'll play a ranger you guys got one of those and just start and go.

I think Classes limit more then expand and open up new possiblities. What if you don't want a potentially Divine casting Ranger, well sorry buddy you character class has them and you can't trade them in so you better use them or loss them. Classes can define your game setting and what you expect of potential archtypes in your worlds, but if you just taliored the skills and said no to this feat and that stunt you can do the same thing and have players make exactly what they want. I think the class system is very locked in. Removal of that factor alone could make the game more universal.

But if Dragonfist does go classless ala M&M it would be a nice idea to add some pregenerated characters all Archetypes in M&M and provide the same thing as a Class, a reference point on which to build, and a nice point cost comparsion of skills powers and feats in case you want to deviate. I am sure they will do this if they go this route anyways. And this implies the direct approval of a GM which puts the power back into his hands and not the rule book. But it also allows those that love classes to see something they are familiar with to remind them it has roots in the old system.

As for the power of damage 10pl energy balst or 10pl sword slash, don't see D20 devaiting too much there fire damage is fire damage if your immune it doesn't hurt you. Your immune to swords say incorporeal, it still won't hurt. They nice thing that this system does do is get rid of a independant damage roll based on nothing and allow a variaible damge, which one could easily add the optional rules from M&M cause penalties to combat ie took 4 stuns I am at -4 to my attacks maybe we should get out of here before where toast. Again this is optional, but it could easily be added with no fuss or mess. I don't know I find this whole Damage Save thing awesome.

I see the system in M&M as like a variable mechanic where you can tailor alot of elements to get exactly what you want, some will immediately say that could be power gaming, but the tone and timber of Steve's writing in it puts the stamp of GM approval on everything which is much more empowering then the one paragragh blurb I read in most other game books.

Granted Dragonfist may indeed be D20, which personally See compatiable with Oriental Adventures so you have instant source material to turn to use until the Next supplement comes out, but I could also view it as for a niche market what would be the difference, other words why buy it. I think a stand out well received system like M&M would be good, witht he optional rules for play as you are famliar with and an Archetype section to show some semeblemce of classes people are familiar with as being the best way to go.

I don't know, so many books in the Sea of D20 must be hard to find something to make yourself stand out. Once you do gotta run with it. But at the same time one might not want to become to exclusionary and leave the door open for the other mainstream D20, maybe 2 books would be inorder, I think an OGL would be all that is needed though. It has Levels in power and Archetypes for classes, and the rule of D6's could easily be added for damage a core D20 player is used to. This route tseems the best of both worlds included in one.

[REG]

ON-TOPIC

Personally, I'd rather they take a page from d20 Modern and use talent and feat trees concepts for the DF PC class.

If you don't know what I'm talking about check out the Modern System Reference Document Basic Class Section.

http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=msrd

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RE: Rangers

I have said it on the Wizards board, and I'll say it here. If you don't like casting spell or two-weapon fighting, don't use them. Personally, I don't think you should get some kind of compensation for not casting spells or fighting with two knives in leather.

Then again, 3e Revised may take the many ranger class grievances into consideration.

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RE: Arabian Adventures

As much as I would like to see Al-Qadim revived for 3e/d20, Chris Pramas got a lot on his plate right now.

Of course, I don't mind someone else doing an "arabian adventures" product.

[Olive]

Al Qadim was my personal favorite of the D&D settings. Although WotC has decided not to license out any more of their settings (ala Ravenloft), I'd personally be a BIG fan of an Arabian Adventures project here.

But that's just one woman's opinion.

but we're relying on you to ENFORCE that opinion on the others Nik!!! I know from the ogre cave interview that Chris liked it too, so why don't you make it happen!

[Nikchick]

... so why don't you make it happen!

It's all a delicate juggling of time, manhours, and money. The curse of our business is having too many ideas to do them all at one time.

Nicole

[REG]

That's enough to go schizophrenic. FWIW, I like your business to succeed and stick around for a long time, so try not to fall into the same trap as TSR once did: make way too many products for so little audiences.

[Olive]

It's all a delicate juggling of time, manhours, and money. The curse of our business is having too many ideas to do them all at one time.

ah well... i still think that GR is the company to do this, and I still think it would sell (although the ex-WotC staffers at GR would know better than I), but you've gotta do what you think is right. Right?