New Talent - Combat Tactics

[Dragon Son]

Hi all, this is a new talent for Dragon Age, it is designed with team play in mind, as you'll discover by reading below.

Combat Tactics
Requirements: Warrior or Rogue, Cunning 2+, Cunning (Tactics)

This talent allows cunning characters to use feints and set up organized attacks in order to destroy foes, all these are done through exemplary team efforts. The character must take an activate acton on his turn and designate a single target, all allies (including yourself) attacking that target enjoy the following benefits. The benefits remain as long as the character maintains that mode and only one mode can be active at any given time.

Novice/Tactical attack - When your allies attack that target, the bonus for outnumbering him/her increases by +1, (+2 for 2 attackers, +3 for 3 attackers), furthermore the upper limit to how high the bonus can reach is +4 for four attackers, as long as the mode is maintained.

Journeyman/Organised Assault - Allies attacking that target benefit from a -1 cost to all stunts,as long as the mode is maintained.

Master/Wolf Pack Tactics - If the target attacks one of your allies with a melee attack, the rest of your allies enjoy +1d6 damage when attacking the target until its next action,as long as the mode is maintained.

So there it is, really interested in hearing your feedback!

[shonuff]

I would think that all characters involved would need to have the talent at the same level in order to receive the benefits.

That said, the talent as written looks to play clunky, and IMO looks like it would bog combat down.

[Dragon Son]

That said, the talent as written looks to play clunky, and IMO looks like it would bog combat down.

Why would it bog combat down? It's got no extra rolls, only bonuses, delaying your turn in initiative is not that big a deal I think.

I would think that all characters involved would need to have the talent at the same level in order to receive the benefits.

In order to make it less powerful? or just for better visualization of party tactics? On first thought I'm against this idea to be honest.

[shonuff]

That said, the talent as written looks to play clunky, and IMO looks like it would bog combat down.

Why would it bog combat down? It's got no extra rolls, only bonuses, delaying your turn in initiative is not that big a deal I think.

Just setting the turn up seems to be much more complicated. Maybe it won't play out that way, but looking at it on screen, I thought it seemed overly complex.

I would think that all characters involved would need to have the talent at the same level in order to receive the benefits.

In order to make it less powerful? or just for better visualization of party tactics? On first thought I'm against this idea to be honest.

IMO, it doesn't make sense if only character knows what is going on. If you set up a feint so that someone else can have an opening, that other person, IMO, needs to know that feint and opening will be there, or the second person could be doing something entirely different.

[Loswaith]

For me this is rather lack luster. It doesn't seem to add much at all but an excuse for some extra damage for the "battle dogs", and doesn't feel like they are all that tactical in nature.

I cant wholely put my finger on why, but just feels rather bland.

I like the idea of some kind of tactical talent that can be beneficial in situations however.

[shonuff]

Offhand, I would change the journeyman talent to a stunt point reduction as opposed to base damage. That, or changing a die roll in order to gain a stunt.

[Vaelorn]

Have a look at this article by Josh Jarman: http://joshjarman.net/2011/07/04/stances/

This might cover some tactical variations for warriors. I've used this idea in a talent I've put into my Eberron mod.

[Loswaith]

Thinking on it more I'd likely use aspects similar to these (though not sure as to the ranks id use them at), trying not to overlap specialisations too.

Tactical Maneuver: As an activate action you spout orders and point out weak spots in your enemies. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gains one additional stunt point anytime they generate stunts until untill the begining of your next turn.

Retreat: As an activate action you call the retreat. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gains +2 to defence and an additional movement action on their next turn if they retreat from the battle.

Hold your Ground: As an activate action you call for your allies to hold the current position. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gain a +2 bonus to defence and gain stand firm as a free action (instead of normally a minor action) until the begining of your next turn.

I suspect, I would most likely rank them Retreat, Tactical Maneuver, then Hold your ground, though not entirely certain.
A requirement of Cunning(Military Lore) atleast on it.

Personaly I don't realy see a need to give stacking attacks a bonus as it is a good tactical option in of itself.

[Dragon Son]

Dragon Age uses a combat system in which,

1) Your attacks will statistically usually succeed.

2) You actually need more damage in order to finish fights that can drag to forever.

The reason that the 1st talent gives a bonus to attack is because it is actually the weakest but still could come in handy in some occassions, when facing a high defense foe. The talent as written serves the task of setting up lethal team attacks because that's what I believe a non-tactical game, with lots of health, like Dragon Age needs. Perhaps the title combat tactics is misleading.

Tactical Maneuver: As an activate action you spout orders and point out weak spots in your enemies. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gains one additional stunt point anytime they generate stunts until untill the begining of your next turn.

I don't really like auras that grant psychological bonuses in combat, it reminds me of video games converted in pen and paper, which I'm not fond of.

Retreat: As an activate action you call the retreat. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gains +2 to defence and an additional movement action on their next turn if they retreat from the battle.

I don't know how useful this would be, furthermore in open terrain it could have some silly visualization, effectively doubling your speed when retreating.

Hold your Ground: As an activate action you call for your allies to hold the current position. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gain a +2 bonus to defence and gain stand firm as a free action (instead of normally a minor action) until the begining of your next turn.

Visually that's rather nice but I disagree with making combat drag even more, that's why I refrained from giving a bonus to Defense, which is what you suggest.

[shonuff]

The way it is written, Retreat looks more like "Break and Run!" than a disciplined retreating action.

I would also probably add a choice of rerequisites: Communcation and Cunning 2; EITHER Cunning (Military Lore) OR Communication (Leadership).

And the novice level of the talent should probably be re-rolling the chosen focus (military lore or leadership) and keeping the second result.

Journeyman: As an activate action you spout orders and point out weak spots in your enemy. Any ally (including yourself) attacking your specifiec target generate 1 additional stunt point everytime they generate stunts. Additionally, when your allies attack the target, the bonus for outnumbering the target increase by +1, (+2 for 2 attackers, +3 for 3 attackers), furthermore the upper limit to how high the bonus can reach is +4 for four attackers.

Master: As an activate action you call for your allies to hold the current position. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gain a +2 bonus to defence and gain stand firm as a free action (instead of normally a minor action) until you switch order modes. Additionally, any ally may alter one die roll by one in order to generate stunts (original dragon die roll would stand for stunt points generated).

First, I liberally copy/pasted a lot of this wording from Dragon Sun and Loswaith, so credit goes there.

Second, this will create order modes: Tactical Maneuvers (journeyman) and Hold Your Ground (master). Entering one mode or the other takes an activation action, but then is maintained until the mode is switched (or combat ended). IMO, having one character giving orders alleviates the need for all characters to have the combat tactics talent as originally written.

[Dragon Son]

I'll reedit the talent based on the helpful feedback from shonuff and Loswaith.

[Dragon Son]

Revised version complete.

[Loswaith]

...
I don't really like auras that grant psychological bonuses in combat, it reminds me of video games converted in pen and paper, which I'm not fond of. ...

This is typicaly how military orders went/go in essence, a psycological push of events and situational maneuvers. Someone shouts an order, others follow it.

...

Retreat: As an activate action you call the retreat. Any ally (including yourself) within 10 yards of you gains +2 to defence and an additional movement action on their next turn if they retreat from the battle.

I don't know how useful this would be, furthermore in open terrain it could have some silly visualization, effectively doubling your speed when retreating. ...

Actually it works out to only about a 25% increase given you can run (double speed) as a major action and move (normal speed) as a minor action.

The way it is written, Retreat looks more like "Break and Run!" than a disciplined retreating action. ...

It could be used as such, though also gives the ability to make extra defencive/offencive actions and still allow some movement.

... I would also probably add a choice of rerequisites: Communcation and Cunning 2; EITHER Cunning (Military Lore) OR Communication (Leadership). ...

I did miss the leadership focus, I'd likely forgo both stat requirement for both the focuses, or have Communication 2 and leadership or Cunning 2 and militarty lore , but your way works too (and likely fits a bit better with RAW). Though with limiting bonuses to single targets leadership seems more fitting.

... And the novice level of the talent should probably be re-rolling the chosen focus (military lore or leadership) and keeping the second result. ...

Good point, thats likely my dislike of the rerolls as talents, as they often feel a bit pointless, given the nature of the mostly succeed system the game has anyway (so rerolls will be few). Though it does fit with RAW better.

All in all can't say I'm a fan of limiting things to a single target for bonuses (personal pefrence), as it would bear little use in larger scale battles and thats where most cohesive tactics realy shine. Though that said tactics isn't just limited to larger groups it just generaly often associates with maneuvering of armies. Guess its one of those we all have our own spin on

[shonuff]

... And the novice level of the talent should probably be re-rolling the chosen focus (military lore or leadership) and keeping the second result. ...

Good point, thats likely my dislike of the rerolls as talents, as they often feel a bit pointless, given the nature of the mostly succeed system the game has anyway (so rerolls will be few). Though it does fit with RAW better.

Re-rolls are more useful at the lower levels, IMO, which is fitting for novice level talents.

All in all can't say I'm a fan of limiting things to a single target for bonuses (personal pefrence), as it would bear little use in larger scale battles and thats where most cohesive tactics realy shine. Though that said tactics isn't just limited to larger groups it just generaly often associates with maneuvering of armies. Guess its one of those we all have our own spin on

Depending on how you do things, the single target is easily scaleable to mass combat. Your target is an enemy unit, and your allies are your other units. So, human groups A & B could gain an extra flanking bonus on genlock group A but not hurlock group B. Units would be the equivalent of individuals.

Of course, I'm also typically against gaming out mass combat. IMO, in a campaign, the darkspawn need to always win at Ostagar and lose at Denerim.