Questions from a new player and game

[Magnumkiller]

I have been reading the books to have my group play this game, and came up on a couple of questions and requests. Some of these might have been answered before, but I couldn't find them, or they might be in one of my open tabs that I am yet to read. If answered in the book, please point me to the right page, or feel free to explain.

Regarding the Noble Houses.

1.- Are the characters supposed to be a banner house of one of the great houses, such as Stark, Tully, Lannister, or of lesser houses, like the Karstarks, Cleganes, Kettlebacks?

2- If being a vassal of a lesser house, should anything be adjusted on house creation? I don't think it would make much sense to have a house that is bigger, wealthier and carries more influence than its overlord, but I could be wrong.

3.- Does the head of the house need to have the name of the house? As an example, if the only heir of the Starks were Sansa's son, whom she had with say Joffrey, would a theoretical Jaime Baratheon be the lord of House Stark? Or would the house simply cease to be and come to be known under the new name? Would this case be the same if she had the son with a Mormont?
I am wondering this partially from an idea of having the player house eat a bigger house, maybe their overlord, through marriage or the like, and I don't know if the original house name would remain, or if that would be only if it were a more "influential" house.

Characters and their profession

4.- I know its common for people to play heirs of the house, but I was wondering, in your experience, has this led to issues within the party? My players usually end up following whoever has the character that works as a leader and has the stats for it, but also base their decision on how he is roleplayed, and I could see this becoming an issue if the one playing the heir/expected party leader was a bad player (we have some of those).

5.- Is it wise to have the steward as a PC character? From what I understood he is in charge of how the family fares, and it seems weird for him to be in charge of that when he isn't even there to take care of it, but maybe I'm just being too logical about it.

Story ideas

6.- I have seen and am reading some topics in the forums with this question, but I was wondering if people could suggest story ideas, mainly as a starting point and as a way to introduce them to the system. My players have knowledge of oWoD and D&D, and those aren't all that similar to this one.

House Rules

7.- Are there any house rules that are, for lack of a better word, "required" to have? I have seen people changing the prices of everything and other such changes, but without playing I wonder if those changes are actually needed to balance the game out.

Regarding the rule books

8.- Should I have my players read any part of the rule books? If so, which part?

9.- In your experience, which information from the books should I keep handy? I don't have the screen, but I hear it has tables that come in handy often on it, could someone tell me which tables those are?

I think those are it for now, but I'm sure more might come up later.

Edit:

10.- Any suggested starting date? I am thinking of 2 years before Robert's Rebellion

11.- How common are wars of conquest between minor houses, and what consequences might come of that? Added to that, is it possible for a house in the North to either conquer or inherit lands outside of the North, and how would that be handled?

[coldwind]

I have been reading the books to have my group play this game, and came up on a couple of questions and requests. Some of these might have been answered before, but I couldn't find them, or they might be in one of my open tabs that I am yet to read. If answered in the book, please point me to the right page, or feel free to explain.

Ok... a few questions here, but I'll throw out a few comments at least. Several have been answered, and some deserve entire threads of their own, but we can certainly get you started.

Regarding the Noble Houses.

1.- Are the characters supposed to be a banner house of one of the great houses, such as Stark, Tully, Lannister, or of lesser houses, like the Karstarks, Cleganes, Kettlebacks?

2- If being a vassal of a lesser house, should anything be adjusted on house creation? I don't think it would make much sense to have a house that is bigger, wealthier and carries more influence than its overlord, but I could be wrong.

3.- Does the head of the house need to have the name of the house? As an example, if the only heir of the Starks were Sansa's son, whom she had with say Joffrey, would a theoretical Jaime Baratheon be the lord of House Stark? Or would the house simply cease to be and come to be known under the new name? Would this case be the same if she had the son with a Mormont?
I am wondering this partially from an idea of having the player house eat a bigger house, maybe their overlord, through marriage or the like, and I don't know if the original house name would remain, or if that would be only if it were a more "influential" house.

1. The PCs' house(s) can be of any level, as well as either a canon one, or one they created from scratch. Odds are they won't roll high enough Influence to be one of the lords paramount (Stark, Lannister, Martell, etc...), nor so terrible to be the least of landed knights, but those are certainly possible. In any event, once their house's realm and influence resource are known, you can have them be a banner house to anyone higher than them.

2. Nothing needs to be adjusted, although if you really want them to be a low influence house, just put an arbitrary cap on their influence. Note as well, if the House invests in any banner houses of its own, they only roll 5d6 for starting resources (instead of 7d6) and their influence is capped at that of the players' house.

3. It's complicated. Most usually, yes, the nominal head of house would have the same name. If a "swallowed" house was significant enough that its name carried needed weight, the groom would likely just be named regent, and their child given the proper house name.

Characters and their profession

4.- I know its common for people to play heirs of the house, but I was wondering, in your experience, has this led to issues within the party? My players usually end up following whoever has the character that works as a leader and has the stats for it, but also base their decision on how he is roleplayed, and I could see this becoming an issue if the one playing the heir/expected party leader was a bad player (we have some of those).

5.- Is it wise to have the steward as a PC character? From what I understood he is in charge of how the family fares, and it seems weird for him to be in charge of that when he isn't even there to take care of it, but maybe I'm just being too logical about it.

4. I've not had any problems, but it really all comes down to your players. Of note - some benefits like Heir require not only the Narrator's approval, but also the other players, so if people don't want a particular player to be the heir, then he probably shouldn't be.

5. It's not a question of wisdom or not. It all depends on how the game goes, but yes, generally if the antics of the players keeps the steward (be he the head of house, a maester, or just a trusted advisor) away from the house's lands for most of a given month, his replacement (a castellan or some such) should roll for that month's House Fortunes.

Story ideas

6.- I have seen and am reading some topics in the forums with this question, but I was wondering if people could suggest story ideas, mainly as a starting point and as a way to introduce them to the system. My players have knowledge of oWoD and D&D, and those aren't all that similar to this one.

6. Developing story ideas is a whole thread (or more!) by itself. It really depends on what type of game you want to run.

House Rules

7.- Are there any house rules that are, for lack of a better word, "required" to have? I have seen people changing the prices of everything and other such changes, but without playing I wonder if those changes are actually needed to balance the game out.

7. There are no "required" house rules.

Common areas that people have concerns about include the fact that heavier armors aren't necessarily statistically better than some lighter ones, characters with abilities of 5 or higher heavily dominating whatever they've specialized in, and adding to various types of house holdings.

There are as many ways to address these concerns as there are Narrators.

Regarding the rule books

8.- Should I have my players read any part of the rule books? If so, which part?

9.- In your experience, which information from the books should I keep handy? I don't have the screen, but I hear it has tables that come in handy often on it, could someone tell me which tables those are?

8. That comes down to a player's comfort level with the rules. At its most basic level, a player just needs to know how to convert his abilities and specialties into the necessary dice rolls, but during play, the options available in combat and intrigue may be frequently referenced.

9. A lot is only needed for prep work, but I typically have the intrigue and combat chapters open when using them.

10.- Any suggested starting date? I am thinking of 2 years before Robert's Rebellion

11.- How common are wars of conquest between minor houses, and what consequences might come of that? Added to that, is it possible for a house in the North to either conquer or inherit lands outside of the North, and how would that be handled?

10. Highly depends on which period of time interests you and the type of game you want to run.

11. Depends on the game.

It is certainly possible to conquer lands outside your own realm, but it could be very difficult to keep them - unless you spin off those new lands into a new house that swears fealty to the new realm's lord paramount, that land's ther nobles will likely take umbrage at an outsider taking their lands.

And even with an oath of fealty, the defeated house likely had some allies, any of which might be spurred into justice or revenge.

[Zorbeltuss]

1. Either version works. The PC house would generally have less power than their liege lord, or else things can get wonky. Most minor houses would typically be sworn to the closest major house, while the major houses are sworn to the great house (though the great houses certainly would have minor and knighted houses sworn directly to them as well).

2. I would figure out the power of your house and then find out who's a suitable liege lord rather than adjusting stats.

3. Depends on circumstances, though typically, the Jaime that inherits Winterfell would typically style himself as Jaime of the House Stark. At a stretch, he might style himself as Jaime of the houses Stark and Baratheon.

4. No real experience with that, aside from the PbP game where I play both Lord and Heir.

5. It could work, if the story mostly takes place at home.

6. What style of play do you want? Combat? Courtly Intrigue?

7. No, not really. Though I have some recommendations:
-Reduce the armor penalty for half- and full plate.
-Increase the XP cost for ability ranks above 4, or otherwise restrict/discourage having ranks above 4.
-Do not allow PC's to reduce an ability to 1 simply to get more XP (give them 50 extra XP flat out if you want to give them that sort of power), or otherwise go out of your way to make sure that doing so will hurt them.
-Disallow the trample order for cavalry in combat.

8. They probably should have read all the rule sections, so that they can make characters and such. Might want to keep the Narrator chapter to yourself, but that's no biggie.

9. I can't recall anything specific that I've looked up more often than other things as it relates to play.

10. Personally, I would try to avoid featuring major world-encompassing events as a general rule, unless you manage to fit in some sort of localized effect where the choices the PC's make matters.
The periods I would recommend, if you do not have a particular storyline in mind, are the reign of Aerys I, the time between the death of Aegon the unworthy and the battle at Redgrass Field and the reign of Tytos Lannister (story set in Westerlands). There is also potential in "what if?" scenarios, like "what if Robert's Rebellion failed?".

11. It happens, but typically only during bigger conflicts. Ramsay force-marrying Lady Hornwood. Bracken-Blackwood dispute. Rather unusual, I'd say.

[DaimosofRedstone]

1.- Are the characters supposed to be a banner house of one of the great houses, such as Stark, Tully, Lannister, or of lesser houses, like the Karstarks, Cleganes, Kettlebacks?

I tend towards 3rd tier houses, vassals of the Kettleblacks, Karstarks, whatever.
If one goes for that though, the comparisons on 95 ff should go overboard completly.

2- If being a vassal of a lesser house, should anything be adjusted on house creation? I don't think it would make much sense to have a house that is bigger, wealthier and carries more influence than its overlord, but I could be wrong.

Completly feasible.
Vassalage relationships are not about who is most powerful but about who was there first. Vassalage is inherited and is quite imaginable that an old, honored house took a turn for the worse and that its vassals are now much more powerful than it.
This does tend to change the balance of power in the relationship though.

3.- Does the head of the house need to have the name of the house? As an example, if the only heir of the Starks were Sansa's son, whom she had with say Joffrey, would a theoretical Jaime Baratheon be the lord of House Stark? Or would the house simply cease to be and come to be known under the new name? Would this case be the same if she had the son with a Mormont?

Apart from the possibility of lines via Ned's brothers or his uncles or great-uncles, the line would end unless there were a clause specifying that the children inherit the mothers lineage.
This depends on relative power. So there would be little chance of implementing this into a marriage contract with Joffrey, but a good chance in case of a Mormont or another banner house.

I am wondering this partially from an idea of having the player house eat a bigger house, maybe their overlord, through marriage or the like, and I don't know if the original house name would remain, or if that would be only if it were a more "influential" house.

The most likely way this would happen, would be if the players married into the house via a second daughter or such and then a plague (or the players ambition) befalls the house and kills of everyone higher up in the line of succession than said daughter.
Then all thats need doing is to make sure that she does not rule but relies on her husband to do it in her stead. Voila.

Characters and their profession

4.- I know its common for people to play heirs of the house, but I was wondering, in your experience, has this led to issues within the party? My players usually end up following whoever has the character that works as a leader and has the stats for it, but also base their decision on how he is roleplayed, and I could see this becoming an issue if the one playing the heir/expected party leader was a bad player (we have some of those).

This can of course lead to issue.
But if your players, particular the would-be leader, are able to see the potential of a situation where a heir does not receive the respect due his position, this can be roleplaying pay dirt.

5.- Is it wise to have the steward as a PC character? From what I understood he is in charge of how the family fares, and it seems weird for him to be in charge of that when he isn't even there to take care of it, but maybe I'm just being too logical about it.

Being the Steward does not necessarily mean running anything.
The STeward first and foremost runs the direct household of the house, e.g. their castle, whatever.
Everything else he is expected to delegate and only supervise occasianally.
One could hang that as high as saying that his first responsibility is making the characters cozy wherever they are (and thus adventuring with them) and that his house roll portrays how well he choose his proxies.

Story ideas

6.- I have seen and am reading some topics in the forums with this question, but I was wondering if people could suggest story ideas, mainly as a starting point and as a way to introduce them to the system. My players have knowledge of oWoD and D&D, and those aren't all that similar to this one.

Depending on what you played in the oWoD your players might be well-prepared.
A very intrigue-driven vampire chronicle might be THE primer for a good SoIaF game, while a 'Crusaders for Gaia'-Werewolf game or D&D dungeoncrawl does not really prepare players for this game.

@Story ideas:
The possibilities are endless and i hesitate to point to anything without knowing anything about your group, but there is of course always the classic trifacture: They have something we want, they took something thats ours (and we want it back) and They have a secret that is important for us to know.

House Rules

7.- Are there any house rules that are, for lack of a better word, "required" to have? I have seen people changing the prices of everything and other such changes, but without playing I wonder if those changes are actually needed to balance the game out.

None are needed.
Depending on how willing your players are to suspend disbelief.
The Prices do not quite work out (weapons are way to expansive), house generation rules can be a little strange from a historical or logical viewpoint, etc.
But there is nothing like the old WoD rules where it was simply impossible to play without houserules.
There is no gamebreaker that requires a homemade fix.

Regarding the rule books

8.- Should I have my players read any part of the rule books? If so, which part?

Did they read the books?
If so you don't need to have them read anything.
Rules you will learn altogether and Equipment lists are not something one does really 'read'.

9.- In your experience, which information from the books should I keep handy? I don't have the screen, but I hear it has tables that come in handy often on it, could someone tell me which tables those are?

I did not gamemaster long enough to answer that.

10.- Any suggested starting date? I am thinking of 2 years before Robert's Rebellion

Seems to be favourite.
What starting date is best for your group depends on their interests though.

11.- How common are wars of conquest between minor houses, and what consequences might come of that? Added to that, is it possible for a house in the North to either conquer or inherit lands outside of the North, and how would that be handled?

First part:
We had a discussion about that some time ago.
Only consensus:
It is risky since there are always bigger fish who might decide that they do not want you to have that land you just conquered or who might even try your for treason or breaking the kings peace.
If one does it would be best to have ones lieges backing.
Second part:
Yes, there is no reason why one could not inherit lands outsides one realm or be a vassal to more than one liege.
The complications if one owns two domains roughly 2000 km apart should be obvious though. Also the problems if ones lieges go to war.

[Magnumkiller]

Thanks for the replies guys, I have seen some great points here, and will keep in mind the house rule suggestions.

So far half of my players were able to start out on their characters, and none of them have chosen to be the heir of the "main" player house, however some new questions came up that are again stumping me.

Two of them decided to play as members of two different banner houses under that main house. One of them wants to play the heir of his banner house, while the other one is planning on being the lord of his.

Can they take the Head of House and Heir benefits? Are they required to get them? Or is this like the Influence Holding where you can have heirs but they don't get the status bonus? They are worried about an abundance of available benefits and a lack of Destiny Points, but are willing to spend on getting these if they have to. -Would a heir-ward also need to get this benefit, Theon Greyjoy for example?

As an added question to the above, the one playing the middle aged character (the Head of Banner House) asked about the lack of benefits even though he has an older character, I understand the low amount of destiny points, but should I require him

About weapons, my players decided to have an artisan in one of the banner houses and buy their equipment from him. I know from the errata that superior weapons cost twice as much as common ones, but what about Extraordinary? Or are those only Valyrian Steel and therefore unbuyable? How do you decide on the price for Special/Exotic items? One of my players is going to be playing a scout/archer, and he might be interested on a Dragonbone bow

Can armors have different grades, too? I couldn't find any reference to that on the book.

And what would I need to have a character who can make wildfire?

[coldwind]

Two of them decided to play as members of two different banner houses under that main house. One of them wants to play the heir of his banner house, while the other one is planning on being the lord of his.

Can they take the Head of House and Heir benefits? Are they required to get them? Or is this like the Influence Holding where you can have heirs but they don't get the status bonus? They are worried about an abundance of available benefits and a lack of Destiny Points, but are willing to spend on getting these if they have to. -Would a heir-ward also need to get this benefit, Theon Greyjoy for example?

Technically, yes, they can take Head of House or Heir for one of the banner houses.

They are not technically required (just like you can be a Maester without the Maester benefit).

An heir that is a ward of another house is certainly allowed to take the Heir benefit, but again, there is no "need" to do so.

As an added question to the above, the one playing the middle aged character (the Head of Banner House) asked about the lack of benefits even though he has an older character, I understand the low amount of destiny points, but should I require him

Older characters gets more points for abilities and specialties, but fewer destiny points.

Note that although they start with few Destiny points and have more mandatory drawbacks, they are still allowed to take on more Drawbacks at character creation to add to their Destiny point total. The still face the limit of a maximum number of starting benefits as per the table, but they can invest in more benefits after achieving story goals.

About weapons, my players decided to have an artisan in one of the banner houses and buy their equipment from him. I know from the errata that superior weapons cost twice as much as common ones, but what about Extraordinary? Or are those only Valyrian Steel and therefore unbuyable? How do you decide on the price for Special/Exotic items? One of my players is going to be playing a scout/archer, and he might be interested on a Dragonbone bow

Extraordinary weapons cannot be bought. They must be found or rewarded.

The Heirloom benefit allows you to start with a Valyrian steel blade. Some house rule the ability to start with other extraordinary weapons and/or armors (like the rune-covered bronze plate of House Royce of Runestone).

Can armors have different grades, too? I couldn't find any reference to that on the book.

The original printing of the Campaign Guide implied that armors could be superior and/or extraordinary, but concrete rules were not supplied. Common house rules include superior armors getting either +1 AR or reducing AP by 1, extraordinary armors getting both.

And what would I need to have a character who can make wildfire?

Magic.

Depending on the time period of the game, that is more or less feasible, although in the default rules only the Pyromancers can do so (and there are no rules for playing/building Pyromancers yet). Buying is the only option right now.

[Lamech]

And what would I need to have a character who can make wildfire?

Mechanically under this system? The trade (pyromancy) benefit.

Of course, under the standard setting, you need magic to make it, and in Westeros the only pyromancers we see are in the pyromancers guild. (And Mel.) To the east there are other pyromancers though. (They can also make some sort of "powders".) After dragons return they appear to gain other cool fire related (or fire flavored) powers as well.

[Magnumkiller]

Thanks again for the replies, we actually finished characters and had a small in-game character introduction last night (forums stopped working for me for some reason at that point).

I guess I'll keep the pyromancers as NPCs, the player who was interested on having one went for a female warrior heir (the house is in Dorne), and this brought up two new, and probably last, questions.

We were wondering if as a noble warrior, the character would be able to participate in tournaments. I made the call that she could do it in Dorne, but I don't know if she would be able to do so in the rest of Westeros. I know Brienne participated in a Melee, but I don't know if that was due to Renly allowing her to do so.

Also, the book states flaws cannot give a -#D bonus greater than Rank-1, but the player took Furious and Threatening, which makes all seduction rolls have a -4D on a Persuasion Rank 2 ability. Would this be ok (by the book) as it only relates to persuasion, or should a drawback be changed?

Thanks in advance for your continued help.

[Zorbeltuss]

Brienne is pretty much an anomaly, so I think the general rule is that she won't get into tournaments north of Dorne.

Also observe that jousting is primarily an Andal thing, so probably not all that common in Dorne. And possibly somewhere where the patriarchish Andal traditions still hold sway, even in Dorne.

Finally, even in Dorne, female warriors are unusual, accepted, sure, but unusual.


I do believe the book only says that the restriction applies to flaws, and not other things. Though as a narrator, I would say that if you have threatening and persuasion 2, then furious really isn't a noticeable drawback, and thus you wouldn't be eligible to get a destiny point for taking it.

I'd say that an heir and future head of house with persuasion 2 is...well, going to have problems.

[Lamech]

We were wondering if as a noble warrior, the character would be able to participate in tournaments. I made the call that she could do it in Dorne, but I don't know if she would be able to do so in the rest of Westeros. I know Brienne participated in a Melee, but I don't know if that was due to Renly allowing her to do so.

There are stories of knights who don't take off their helmet until the end of the joust, IIRC. She could at the very least enter the joust as something like "Knight of the Sandy Hills". Probably the same thing for the melee. It might be frowned upon if discovered though. (And then the exact result would be a political decision.) Awkward questions would result if she won the hand of some lords daughter in marriage.

[Magnumkiller]

I agree that a heir with Persuasion 2 will have a terrible time, but the character concept is that she is terrible and awkward at social situations, often being offensive/scary (intimidate).

Regarding jousting, the player didn't spend any points on animal handling or money on a lance, so she would participate in melees only, which at least based on the rule book and my memories of medieval tournaments, wouldn't be the main event and therefore no risk of getting a lord's daughter.

I did recommend wearing an armor that doesn't make it obvious its a female warrior, but I assume at some point the helmet must be removed, and awkwardness ensues.

As an add on, are non knights/nobles allowed into the tournaments? I believe commoners were the ones who usually did archery contests, so I'm wondering more about the melee and jousting. The lack of armor and proper training would leave many unable to participate/easily killed, but what about men-at-arms and other soldiers, or rich merchants who can outfit and get a son trained?

I'll talk with my player about one of the drawbacks not being noticeable, see what we can come up with, since it does seem rather redundant.

And while I'm at it, since the topics I read on destiny points seem to end up in tangents and all I want to know is recovery, if I recall correctly the game says to give a new destiny point upon finishing a story, but when do you recover spent points? At crucial junctions, or maybe upon finishing the story? Do you recover them all at once, or is it one spent point per recovery? I am assuming this can lead to getting a new dp and recovering a spent one.

[Zorbeltuss]

Tourneys seems to be different, in the Ashford tourney in Dunk and Egg, only knights could enter. In the tourney of the hand, horse and armor was all that was needed, or so it would seem. Both Jory and Lothor Brune were in the employ of Lords, after all.

There's mentions of mystery Knights here and there. Barristan, Dunk and the Dragonknight are some examples.

For melee's, it is perhaps more typically something for squires or men at arms. Though Robert did take part.

[Lamech]

And while I'm at it, since the topics I read on destiny points seem to end up in tangents and all I want to know is recovery, if I recall correctly the game says to give a new destiny point upon finishing a story, but when do you recover spent points? At crucial junctions, or maybe upon finishing the story? Do you recover them all at once, or is it one spent point per recovery? I am assuming this can lead to getting a new dp and recovering a spent one.

Okay, by RAW you get a NEW destiny point at the end of each story. You regain all SPENT destiny points when they complete a "story goal". I think that's the same thing as a story, but you can make it more often if you want. Regardless all of them are recovered. Finally, if a player concocts a reasonable explanation they can take a flaw and gain a destiny point, or they can gain a destiny point by spending 50xp (not normally worth it.)

You could house rule recovering them in portions, but I would recommend against it. If I have 7 destiny points, I can spend them all at the final encounter to ensure victory. If I regain them a portion at a time, and I blow them all on a major scene, I'll only have 1 next scene.

[Magnumkiller]

Thanks Zorbeltuss, I guess I'll just have the tournaments be random, maybe throw a dice and anything that isn't a six means females don't get to fight or something.

Lamech, thanks, that sounds appropiate, I was kind of mapping it to Willpower in WoD, and there you recover a point at a time. I suppose I might set it at halfway through a story and at the end for recovery of spent points, so as to allow them to use them more.