What Wildlings Want

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What Wildlings Want

Postby Flagg » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:13 pm

What sorts of goods from south of the Wall, aside from metal weapons, do you think would be valuable commodities to trade to wildling tribes? Tools? Medicines?
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:22 pm

Tools, definitly.
Medicine... hmm, i am not sure Southron medicine is really so much or even just ahead of Wildling medicine (both seem to rely primarily on herbal remedies and a class of Maesters/Goodwives to administer those).
I think various trinkets, gold, cloth, basically all kind of luxury goods that are easy to carry might also be prized booty because it can be used to mark yourself as a succesful raider.
For the routes through the mountains or the sea lifestock and people might also enter into the pool of desirable booty, both mainly to shake up the genepool.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Kajani » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:07 pm

I think the genepool is not as much a problem, because the wildlings are not SO few in numbers - they may live scattered over a huge area, but the tribes which raid are those which have less the problem of isolation (I think that hit more the more savage tribes far in the north of the north, so to spak). They meet regulary and it seems so as if they try to avoid "interbreeding" (Craster is also because of his "marriages" seen as scum, I thought). Stealing cattle or people from the areas south to the wall may not be very effective because both are not prepared to love under this conditions and in many cases might die or at least getting weak and ill.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Gurkhal » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:17 am

The Wildlings do steal people, and if I recall then one of the Umbers had a daughter taken by the Wildlings. But as has been mentioned it probably isn't a genepool issue and I would think its got more with status to do. Having a wife stolen from across the Wall would surely make you as a greater raider and warrior.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:57 am

The wildlings as a whole have without a doubt a sufficient genepool.
The wildlings however do not exist as a whole. They exist as mixed bag of tribes some of which are quite small, small enough for genepool issue.
To solve these they steal women. Either from other tribes where it is a semi-benign courting ritual (at least as Ygritte tells it, but there might also be genuine abductions) or robbing them from beyond the wall (where there might also be varied levels of consent).
Same goes for lifestock (and i doubt that northern cattle is unable to live in winter-conditions when there is snow even in summer in The North): The whole wildling livestock population might be quite varied, but not necessarily that of one tribe or company.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Kajani » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:42 am

Risking to get beatings by the wilding-friends here, but anyway: :wink:
How should be ANY greater amount of consent between women south of the wall and their possible kidnappers from the north? The north has nothing to offer but a cold, primitive life (even for medieval standards), under the threat of violence and hunger which is even greater than in rest of Westeros. I see not way how the would-be kidnapper could court a girl or women to get consent to run away with him – if they come south they are hunted even more than normal criminals and there is a much greater difference between the cultures. That a girl runs away with a criminal like a robber or pirate, smuggler or poacher that may happen sometimes, but a man from behind the Wall?
Ok, there is the tale of that Stark-girl Ygritte told, but I think this could mostly count as legend…
I think in the most cases the best a kidnapped woman has to await is that she and her kidnapper come to an agreement sometimes later after “marriage”. But the first time must be traumatically – let aside how much respect the “kneeing people” could await in the far north. But perhaps I had a little bit too negative point of view of that women stealing subject…
That mean not that there are not exceptions in which there is consent in traveling north, but I believe that is hardly more often than one in ten cases or so I would say.

It might be other if children are stolen - if they grow up and were treated good by their kidnappers it is very easy to believe that they become a regular part of the tribe, since they forget their old life, but the main victims (although small in number I guess) seem to be adult women and older girls.

DaimosofRedstone You are right there may be very isolated tribes, but I think that is much more the case in the far, far north, in the land of always winter, the land of the Thenns – areas from which raiding parties are surely rare. The “regular” raiding tribes in the southern parts of the Frostfangs and the Haunted Forest etc. seem closer in contact with each other.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Flagg » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:04 am

Wife stealing aside, any other suggestions? :D
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:43 am

Furniture, building materials, factory equipment, ships, horses, castles, siege equipment?!
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Kajani » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:39 am

Furniture...sure, the Ikea-wildings :D (ok, I do not know if that spot is also to be seen in English TV)

I think what was posted above may be already correct. Perhaps they also may "steal" specialists like smiths? Weapons, armour, tools, even iron and steel. I mean the wildlings sure use more bone and wood than metal - even iron needles, nails, picks and shovels are a innovation for them, several types of clothing perhaps too. I could imagine that with an axe of steel, some knives or a small package of needles you are “rich”. Anything might by useful for tribes which have mainly leather for their cloths and did not produce much ore.
Thinks which show prestige like jewellery perhaps also, if they could get some, wine and so on – not because they need it but because it is so rare and show what a successful raider you are.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Flagg » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:37 am

I'm putting together a story that involves a band of southerners going above the Wall. They'll be traveling light, so I'm trying to determine the most efficient goods for them to bring with them to pay their way through the various wildling territories. I'm thinking steel arrowheads and spear points might be a safe bet.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:47 am

Kajani wrote:Perhaps they also may "steal" specialists like smiths?

Well, that woulkd, i imagine, largely depend on whether there is iron behind the wall.
If you got not raw material why kidnap a specialist for said material?
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Gurkhal » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:36 pm

Flagg wrote:I'm putting together a story that involves a band of southerners going above the Wall. They'll be traveling light, so I'm trying to determine the most efficient goods for them to bring with them to pay their way through the various wildling territories. I'm thinking steel arrowheads and spear points might be a safe bet.


That's certainly a possibility but it could be dangerous too. The Wildlings may decide to take things by force if they have superior numbers and the Night's Watch may execute them as well. Remember what happend with the smuggler who sold iron weapons to the Wildlings that Davos travelled with in his youth, he was executed by the Night's Watch for that particular crime.

But in terms of value I will concur that little will carry as much weight for the Wildlings as iron weapons.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Kajani » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:03 am

DaimosofRedstone: I know that the Wall errected when in Westeros only bronze was used. I think that the material for iron could be found very well in the north (if I am correct it is even harder to find tin than crude iron which you already could find under the grass). Another question is if they get the knowledge to use it. But I think even the Wall is not so thick that it could stop the travelling of the technology for thousands of years. SOME trade has ever been, SOME people deserted from the Night Watch or traded with the Wildlings. Some people were captured in the south and brought into the north. I guess that the knowledge could leaked at least to some tribes, and even if not the material is there...

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I think cloths, jewellery (for status), iron tools and maybe salt (for tribes which could not get it other than with trade) may also be very precious for many tribes. Medicine and a man/ woman which could work with them perhaps also, if you meet groups which have not gifted healer. To the seven hells, maybe also a minstrel may be welcommed if he is good - oral traditions are held high in the north and perhaps they are interested in hearing new tales...
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby Iron Legs » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:58 am

Let's see:

- WINE. Exotic beverage for them. With more alcohol than their ale.
- CLOTHES.- Mance Rayder tolds that for a wildling woman, a tatter of silk was a treasure.
- IRON.- not only weapons. Picks, shovels, nails, fish hooks.
- SALT.- To preserve food.
- FOOD.- Not many excedents beyound the Wall.
- JEWELS.- Are a symbol of status among Wild chieftains.
- MILITARY ADVISORS.- A former Unsullied of Mereen could teach them lots of things, for example.
- TRANSPORT.- With some galleys, the Wildlings could cross the sea and attack the Watch from the rear.

Acording to Varamyr Sixskins, Eastwatch is a trading emporium (North-sized) between the Wildlings and the outside world. Lysenes and braavosis, for exemple, were aware that Mance had assembled their army. And wanted some slaves for it.
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Re: What Wildlings Want

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:13 am

Kajani wrote:DaimosofRedstone: I know that the Wall errected when in Westeros only bronze was used. I think that the material for iron could be found very well in the north (if I am correct it is even harder to find tin than crude iron which you already could find under the grass).

Bronze is easier to work and recycle than iron (or more specifically steel) because tin and cooper are less likely to corrode than iron or to take on impurities.

@Iron Legs:
Yes, Salt, definitly salt.
Though this could possibly also be found in the Land beyond the Wall but stealing is always easier of course.
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