Influence and maximum status

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Influence and maximum status

Postby nakraal » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:33 pm

My group created a house with 29 influence. Based on the book the maximum rank , the one of the great lord is 4 and that of the heir and the rest of the nobles is 3.

Now in several other parts of the book, where status levels are described, (in both the core and the campaign books)
status 3 is equivalent of household servants and sworn swords and status 4 to house retainers and landed knights.

In char creation, (Status & House) pg 45 in GoT:

The head of the household and his family have the highest Status,
typically 6, followed by banner lords, wards, courtiers, advisors,
and septons, all of which are at 5.

Currently the house of my players has a very tight "space" for me to distribute status to the household members.

In fact, the great lord and his wife (ncs) are at 4 , and aall other are at 3 (the 3 pcs along with the heir, the maester, the great lord's brothers, cousins, sworn swords etc).

Am I correct?


EDIT: Another minor rule clarification (trying to avoid spamming threads)

Characters have a tops # of benefits of 3 (until middle aged) in char creation.

Can they take more benefits after play begins?
e.g. Can one player on game start spend a destiny (or take a flaw) and take 1 more benefit thus having 4?
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Zorbeltuss » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:37 pm

That's because there's three separate and largely incompatible systems for determining status in this game. You basically need to use a little bit of subjectivity and personal judgement to make it fit.

Though generally, if you build a house like that, you should use influence->max status from that chapter as the baseline.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby coldwind » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:55 am

More benefits can be taken during play, yes.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Flagg » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:30 am

Zorbeltuss wrote:That's because there's three separate and largely incompatible systems for determining status in this game. You basically need to use a little bit of subjectivity and personal judgement to make it fit.

Though generally, if you build a house like that, you should use influence->max status from that chapter as the baseline.


Can you elaborate on this?
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby coldwind » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:55 am

In the Character Creation chapter, Table 3-2 uses a generic, unnamed house, slotting the lord, heir, lady and offspring at Status 6, bannermen and septons at 5, maesters and landed knights at 4, etc...

In the Abilities and Specialties chapter, under Status, the ranks go from 0 for a slave, to 4 for a landed knight or heir to a minor house, to 5 for a lord of a minor house, to 7 for a lord of a great house, to 10 for the King.

In the House and Lands chapter, under the Influence resource description, it notes that an influence of 1-10 is a minor landed knight, 41-50 is a powerful minor family, and 61-70 is the King's family and those of the Wardens of North, East, South, and West. Comparing those to Table 6-5 yields a max Status of 2, 5, and 7 respectively.

While they may all seem in the same ballpark, since the scale for Status is generally only 1-7 (one chart goes to 10), each variation of +/-1 actually changes a lot.

While the chart in the Abilities and Specialties chapter gives the best breadth of differentiate, if you are using the House and Lands rules, you should go with the values from the Influence and Max Status (Table 6-5) because those keep things (theoretically) balanced with other house investments.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Tedric » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:42 pm

And note that Jaime Lannister, heir of House Lannister is only Status 4, which seems to be in accordance with the House and Lands system.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Flagg » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:54 pm

Jaime's not the heir. Tyrion is/was. Jaime is Kingsguard.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby nakraal » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:55 pm

That must be a bug or something as Jaime should have had the benefit Man of the Kingsguard which gives him a Status 5.

Also I think that Jaime is not the heir of the House as being in the Kingsguard is for life, and he also can not marry.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Tedric » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:12 pm

My mistake indeed. I forgot the fact he belongs to the Kingsguard.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Paedrig » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:39 am

The lower Status Of Jamie might have something to do with his most infamous (known) deed - killing the king who he should protect.
Of course killing mad Aery is certainly noz SO bad in many eyes, but Jamie was a man of the Kingsguard.
Concerning Tyrion i am not certain if he could count as the heir of house Lannister - at least his father seem to have annother opinion.

But I agree the different use of Satus sound unlogic and broken.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Flagg » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:32 am

As of the start of the series, at least, he was the legal heir to Casterly Rock. Whether Tywin was going to let that happen is a different story.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Kajani » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:42 am

But it seems that he never was official named as such - or so I understand that poisonous debate between them after the capture of the Kingslayer when Tyrion demanded exactly that.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Flagg » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:50 am

True, but according to the custom of premogeniture, Tyrion was next in line once Jaime swore his Kingsguard vows. I don't know enough about Westerosi law to know if Tywin had the legal authority to override that and name a different heir. As the most powerful man in Westeros, however, he'd probably do whatever the hell he pleased anyway.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby nakraal » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:41 am

In A Song of Fire Wiky Cercei is named the Lannister heir.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Flagg » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:02 am

Well, she's not the heir, she's the "lord"... but that's for spoilerish reasons I won't get into here ;)
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Paedrig » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:56 am

I would also assume while the normal legal proceder is that the oldest son (and if no son at hand, the oldest daughter) is the heir, it is quiet possible for a lord to overgo his normal heir if he/she do not suits him and name annother one.
Of course this could also result in a lot of trouble - and if someone stands above you (f. e. if you are a vassel of someone) this guy will also have something to say...
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Flagg » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:03 am

I could also see it leading to an internal power struggle, if not open war, when the Lord dies, if the passed-over son doesn't want to submit quietly. In Westeros, force of arms seems to supercede the law nearly every time.
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Paedrig » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:28 am

This is exactly what I mean with trouble.
And what a excellent source of plot ideas for your RPG group... >:)
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Re: Influence and maximum status

Postby Zorbeltuss » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:57 am

SPOILER.



Tyrion being an attainted traitor sort of paves the way for Cersei anyway you look at it.
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