Power Characters?

[Mercer Dayne]

Okay, I have read up to a Feast of Crows (waiting for DoD to go paperback) and seen the HBO series, I am a huge fan of the books/show. I am planning to run a game, and have been reading up on the rules mechanics, and the Campaign sourcebook, just to have material for when I finish writing my story/chronicle.

My query is how does one make a "Power" character, for either Combat or Intrigue, id like to get as many variations as possible, so I know what to look for when my players table characters for approval, Id like to know what to expect, not necessarily on the broken side, but maybe overpowered or what you all think is a very "strong" character in terms of abilities, regarding both Combat capability and Intrigue capability.

I am not about to say "NO" to my players, but one or two have a history of trying to pull the wool over mine and other GMs/Narrators eyes, and being relatively new Id like to have my info incase I feel a particular combo is too strong.

Thanks for your time

[Carriker]

So, here's my experience. Rather than list out all the possible "power combos" or something similar, let me emphasize instead specialization. It is possible to become extremely focused in one or two areas of the character with the basic rule set. As a result, those characters are often very powerful when operating within their field of expertise, sometimes overwhelmingly so.

Unlike in most systems, however, that's not necessarily a problem. This setting has plenty of characters who are very, very good at what they do, be it Combat (Jaime Lannister, Ser Barristan Selmy), Intrigue (Petyr Baelish, Tywin Lannister), Warfare or what have you. Those characters almost always do try and solve their problems through the application of their specialties.

As Narrator, the thing to look out for with such characters is to make sure that two things happen: Not every problem can be solved via such methods; but to also give the player a chance for his character to really shine. Players create powerful characters because they want to play characters that do awesome things - that's not a bad motivation. Such characters, however, almost inevitably are weaker in other areas, which is borne out by the SIFRP system.

A strong fighter like Jaime Lannister often finds himself in difficult places when those who are more socially adept than he push and pull on him with Intrigue. A schemer like Varys or Littlefinger find themselves in a difficult place when they come up against those who are skilled at arms, on the other hand.

One of the players in my own game has created such a creature. He is actually good at both Combat and Intrigue, but only specific elements within those. He's an awesome tourney knight, with specializations in spears, awesome Riding, and that kind of thing. He is also very, very skilled at Charming someone in Intrigue, increasing their Disposition and basically winning everyone over. So, I make a point of giving him plenty of opportunity to make important characters like him, and to joust and fight with his spear, but he can't use only those to his advantage all the time (and is honestly not great in Intrigues, due to a low Intrigue Defense - people love him, but they're good at getting him to do what they want, too).

[Lord Ben]

One "power" build would be a character with massive to wield a 2H weapon in one hand and then athletics with a high bonus dice to strength. They'll typically deal lots of damage.

Of course Ned Stark had a valyrian steel greatsword and was even a pretty good swordsman, however at the end he probably wished he would have put a few more points into intrigue defense...

[Mercer Dayne]

Excellent, so far this is largely my concern. One of my players (One of the ones who likes to try these Power Characters) just tried to table that character, Massive Qaulity + One Handed Greatsword, but he realized he wasnt so strong in Intrigue and went back to the drawing board.

I just like to be prepared, I dont mind combat oriented or intrigue oriented characters, but Id like to know what COULD happen.

[Lord Ben]

I might be biased but a good swordsman with the famous quality (for being a good swordsman!) that turns charm/seduce bonus dice into test dice is a pretty good combo. Your intrigue defense, composure, etc won't be as high as a purely intrigue character but you'll have some great options in intrigue that a purely combat character would not. I have a swordsman like that with 3 persuasion and +3B seduce, +2B charm. So with the famous quality that's 6d6 seduce and 5d6 charm when I use those techniques. Not good in all situations but it fits a famous fighter concept quite well. Gives me lots of options while still being a combat powerhouse.

[coldwind]

Of course said powerhouse is read easier than a menu.

Everyone has a weakness.

[Lord Ben]

Oh certainly he's vulnerable, like anyone. There is no magic character without weaknesses.

[Carriker]

One of the lovely little tricks I've found to be unexpectedly effective is Ser Garwyn Blackhorn's new Animal Cohort benefit for his courser, Marigold. Automatic +1D to his attacks while she is near him? Harder to get closer than being mounted.

He's an absolute monster at tourneys.

[coldwind]

One of the lovely little tricks I've found to be unexpectedly effective is Ser Garwyn Blackhorn's new Animal Cohort benefit for his courser, Marigold. Automatic +1D to his attacks while she is near him? Harder to get closer than being mounted.

He's an absolute monster at tourneys.

I've done that with a few knights rather than trying to specialize in either sword or lance via Expertise. Fun, and flavourful.

[Mercer Dayne]

I might be biased but a good swordsman with the famous quality (for being a good swordsman!) that turns charm/seduce bonus dice into test dice is a pretty good combo. Your intrigue defense, composure, etc won't be as high as a purely intrigue character but you'll have some great options in intrigue that a purely combat character would not. I have a swordsman like that with 3 persuasion and +3B seduce, +2B charm. So with the famous quality that's 6d6 seduce and 5d6 charm when I use those techniques. Not good in all situations but it fits a famous fighter concept quite well. Gives me lots of options while still being a combat powerhouse.

Thats absolutley ridiculous. In a "Wow, didnt not know that" way. I like it and it gives me a way to make a certain NPC I was planning.

[Mercer Dayne]

One of the lovely little tricks I've found to be unexpectedly effective is Ser Garwyn Blackhorn's new Animal Cohort benefit for his courser, Marigold. Automatic +1D to his attacks while she is near him? Harder to get closer than being mounted.

He's an absolute monster at tourneys.

Is that +1D to both Fighting tests with Jousting and Melee from horseback? Or just damage. Either way, also very crazy. I might mention this if the one players ends up going Knight. He is new to RPing and might need a little boost to feel useful compared to the rest of the group.

[Ser Richard]

In one of are games we had a guy that has a super archer 7 marksmenship with like 6 bonus dices in longbow, on top of Expertise in Long bows Double and Thriple Shot and Deadly Shot, and had a Agility of 6, he was doing about 30 points of damage with each shot and he was shooting 3 a turn.

[Zorbeltuss]

Then the game devolves into combats where the challenge is to win iniative or there won't be a challenge at all.

I'd try and steer away from such tbh.

In general, if you can get 6D+ on a test and add a few bonus dices to it, there's very few passive defenses that can withstand that. The two counters available against such a character is another such beast (but see comment about that), or to force a conflict to a place where that particular ability is useless.

[Erryk]

The two counters available against such a character is another such beast (but see comment about that), or to force a conflict to a place where that particular ability is useless.

Or just capture the damned kingslayer and cut his hand off, that'll teach him to created an overpowered one-sided character. The game IS set in George RR Martin's westeros. It wouldn't be right without a few player tragedies...

[Ser Richard]

correct the Narrator sets the scene, so an archer with 7 in marksmenship is screwed if the scene is he's jumped in the street or a player that uses a great sword and wears full plate, a dagger in the back when he's drunk. the game is no fun if their isn't a challege. another good thing to remember is not to let the player drop one stat to 1 for the 50 xp, they can buy it back up to 2 and still be 40 points ahead.

[Zorbeltuss]

20 points ahead, as buying it back up to 2 in play costs 30.

Though odds are, if you drop an ability to 1, you won't be raising it in play anyway.

[Ser Richard]

No they still can buy the stat that they drop up in character creation at 10 points to 2 and still have 40 points

[Zorbeltuss]

No they still can buy the stat that they drop up in character creation at 10 points to 2 and still have 40 points

What do you mean?

[Ser Richard]

they drop a stat to 1 getting the 50 points, then they buy it up again to 2 for 10 points so then they still have 40 extra points and no stat at 1.

[Zorbeltuss]

You can't do that.

At character creation, it technically works like this:
Ability A starts at rank 2.
If you reduce it to 1, you get 50 XP to spend on the rest.
It costs 10 XP to start with rank 3, 40XP to start with rank 4, 70XP to start with rank 5 etc...

How much XP out of your pool (determined by your age) that each stat costs (or gives in the case of 1) is determined by what rank you end up with.

After character creation, it costs 30XP to increase a rank one step, no matter your current value.

[DaimosofRedstone]

they drop a stat to 1 getting the 50 points, then they buy it up again to 2 for 10 points so then they still have 40 extra points and no stat at 1.

Yes, i just drop EVERY stat to 1 and then by them up again. Give me 13*40 xp. My GM says that is cheating, but its in the rules, right?
Cannot blame for playing by the rules?
Anyway, all the other players are just jealous that i am so much samrter than they and my character is too now.

[Lord Ben]

That's not in the rules at all... the XP costs are for what you start at. There is no switching around during char creation. You either start with 1 or you start with 2. During char creation you can't drop to 1 and then buy it up again...

[Cidius]

Hi,

im new at Sif RPG. I tried out a fight with the premade scout and the premade Clansmen charackters.
The only change i made is that the scout has got the same armor (hide) as the Clansmen.
6 Clansmen dont have even a chance win against the scout in combat.
They only make 1 point of damage only if they roll a 6 on the three dice!
I think its ok for an experienced Charackter to win against 6 of them, but not a brandnew.

Did i misunderstood the rules?
Are there other possibilities wich i have not recognized for the clansmen to overthrow the scout without changing the original rules?

Sorry in advance for perhaps placing this post on the wrong place, as im new at posting in forums.

Thanks.

[aneirin]

Hi,

im new at Sif RPG. I tried out a fight with the premade scout and the premade Clansmen charackters.
The only change i made is that the scout has got the same armor (hide) as the Clansmen.
6 Clansmen dont have even a chance win against the scout in combat.
They only make 1 point of damage only if they roll a 6 on the three dice!
I think its ok for an experienced Charackter to win against 6 of them, but not a brandnew.

Did i misunderstood the rules?
Are there other possibilities wich i have not recognized for the clansmen to overthrow the scout without changing the original rules?

Sorry in advance for perhaps placing this post on the wrong place, as im new at posting in forums.

Thanks.

If you just has the clansmen attack then yeah, they wont win. However, if you have one clansmen use a knockdown and another clansmen to pin him (he will have another dice to do this as he is prone) the character will lose his agility from his combat defense, all attackers will have an extra dice due to him being prone, and if you manage to pin him an attacker will have an extra bonus dice due to him being helpless!

We will assume the scout went first and killed one, leaving 5 left, and we will assume we got lucky and managed to knock him down and pin him (not to hard to knock him down if he is wearing armour due to the penalty and then pin him due to the bonus die)

That means we have three left to do an attack. We can have one do an all out atack. Greater action, he gets an extra dice (though loses combat defense), he can be assisted by the other 3 no problem (though one who did a knock down can also assist as he hasn't attacked)

So now our clansmen will be hitting at our scout with his normal dice, +1 dice for him being prone, +1 dice for him being helpless, +1 dice for all out attack, he has lost his agility from his combat defence and he gets a +3 to his result due to the others assisting him!

That is most likely going to lead to a critical hit, meaning your attacks will be doing extra damage (if you use the critical rules, even an athletics 2 character can do some serious damage) and so the scout will be taking a wound at the least.

Next round he will be in trouble as he is at minus 1 dice. he will need to use fatigue to ignore it to get out the pin reliably or kill one of the clansmen.

It is far from guaranteed you will be able to knock him down and pin him, but using the rules and combat manouvres, you cans eriously threaten PC's. If they just stand there attacking him though, they will all die.

[Lord Ben]

^^ Knockdowns, etc, yeah.

Also nothing wrong with switching up the weapons of the premade characters either to something that can deal a bit more damage. Feel free to give one a big stone warhammer, etc.