Merc Cost

[aprewett]

Hello,
In the pocket book it list the mercenary power cost as +1, does this mean that trained power cost and add one?
Because then there is the wealth powere cost that mentions the training level.
It just seems that the training + +1 is too much power for a unit not even connected to the house.
I am going to go with only 1 power for a basic infantry merc unit with wealth cost as listed for training level.

Also does it list any where how long they will stay with you.
Is the wealth cost permenant or does it come back after there contract is up, I would think it would be spend and not returned as it represents wages etc.

Thanks
Allan

[aprewett]

So no one has done much with Mercenaries?

Allan

[coldwind]

Your first assumption seems right. Training + 1 Power + Wealth equal to Training.

Green sellswords are pretty cheap, but better trained ones get quite expensive.

[coldwind]

Also, the wealth cost is one time, and much like any other investment - if you choose to get rid of them, you get the Wealth and Power back. If they're destroyed, you lose the Power, but given the phrasing of the Wealth (a reduction, rather than a cost) you get it back any way.

[Kival]

That seems very illogical though. I'm inclined to change the merc-rules drastically, probably giving them only wealth costs but you can't get it back or something like that.

[coldwind]

Illogical how?

It's no different than investing in a maester or marketplace. If you choose to stop investing in them, you get the points back. If they're killed/destroyed somehow, you lose the points.

[Kival]

Illogical how?

It's no different than investing in a maester or marketplace. If you choose to stop investing in them, you get the points back. If they're killed/destroyed somehow, you lose the points.

And why do you not lose the wealth point, if they got killed?

[KristoffStafk]

Illogical how?

It's no different than investing in a maester or marketplace. If you choose to stop investing in them, you get the points back. If they're killed/destroyed somehow, you lose the points.

And why do you not lose the wealth point, if they got killed?

Because the House Resources are very abstracted. Regaining access to the Wealth points does not symbolize getting the money back, it symbolizes no longer needing to pay them.

It helps if you don't think of a House's Wealth as "how much gold is in their treasury" but rather "how much income do they have in excess of their expenses."
By removing an expense, you "regain" the invested Wealth by not having to continue spending it.

[aprewett]

It just seems that merc's are very expensive, and for a few power extra a house could invest in a unit of there own, and not loose any wealth.
I am inclined to go with the power should be a straight One, for infantry type Merc units and the wealth takes care of the training.
If they are suppoed to be training level +1 in power and then the wealth, they would have to have some good benefits, but they only have a poor discipline mod.

Allan

[Legate]

"It just seems that merc's are very expensive..."

Yes, yes they are and always have been.

It should be noted that Mercenaries would not be put on "retainer" as it were; once the immediate conflict is finished they would be disbanded. Personally, I don't see a problem with the rules as they stand.

[Zorbeltuss]

If you get the wealth back if they get destroyed or released from service, then it's a useful option, actually.

Though green mercs are little more than fodder, and trained mercs are starting to cost a bit more than it's worth compared to regular infantry or garrison for cheap option.

[aprewett]

Does the power investment get returned also?

Allan

[Zorbeltuss]

Not if they get destroyed.

I am not sure if you get it all back if you simply disband them.

[Captainamerica1a]

I like Mercs. They let you field many units quickly. Much like peasants/criminals. If you are looking at hiring "Elite" Mercs then you shouuld likely think why you are doing it. A house unit is more likely what would serve your purpose.

[Danestar]

Maybe have an option for hiring the mercenarys for different roles.

So a garrison would have the power and wealth cost at a third but need to be hired for a set time that is at least 6 months and can't be used outside the houses lands.

A raiding force where the unit is only used once for a specific mission but the power and wealth costs are halved.

And a general combat force using the same rules in the book.

[Zorbeltuss]

Honestly, for different types of mercs all one needs to do is extrapolate:

Mercenaries: -3 Power, +3 Discipline, special.

Cannot be combined with criminals or peasant levies.
Costs Wealth as indicated by level of training.
Has the same equipment and abilities as a unit of their type (infantry mercenaries has Athletics, Endurance, Fighting, Archer mercenaries has Agility, Awareness, Marksmanship).

It's not quite the same seeing that Mercs have slightly better armor and damage* than standard infantry.

*if upgraded with wealth, otherwise damage is the same.

[Ser Richard]

i think it 1 power and you pay wealth for their training not power, otherwise the statment that they are cheap in power is a not true because they cost almost the same as some troops but cost wealth also,

[Zorbeltuss]

they cost power for training, and yes they are kinda expensive.

[vonpenguin]

I think they're meant to be on the pricey side. Mercs and levis are meant more as a "we need more men yesterday" kind of thing than a reliable long term standing force.

[Ser Richard]

I still don't know about paying power for Merc training sense the point is for a house that has little power and more wealth can field an army and the rules have a chart for paying wealth for their training. \

[coldwind]

Compare the mercenaries with their closest equivalent (arguably infantry)

Green Mercenaries: 2 Power + 1 Wealth
Green Infantry: 5 Power

Trained Mercenaries: 4 Power + 3 Wealth
Trained Infantry: 7 Power

Veteran Mercenaries: 6 Power + 6 Wealth
Veteran Infantry: 9 Power

So, at Green, mercs are cheaper, at trained the total resource cost is the same, and at veteran and elite, mercenaries are more expensive.

For that, you get a higher (+3) Discipline but better armor and better upgrades available. Seems even to me.

[Captainamerica1a]

The costs are also in fact a one time thing. So buy a bunch of green mercs, and the ones that survive/get promoted, you keep. And let them get better by battle. Ties up your wealth still but, long term it could pay off.

[InfinityzeN]

I use a house rule in my game where it takes the Power cost of a unit in months, -1 month per degree of success in a Warfare test with a difficulty of the Power cost. Your houses Master at Arms or some such is the one who makes the Warfare roll. The only units this does not apply to are Levies and Mercs, both of which are raised in the same month the points are spent.

This has the effect of making Houses who do not have fair sized standing forces or Houses who need more troops due to a conflict much more likely to use Mercs and Levies.