GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Carriker » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:52 am

nakraal wrote:I can't see how is that they can't correct the product when it's release date is still months away.

Where are you getting the idea that the release date is months away? The book releases this week.

nakraal wrote:You mean that the books are printed and bonded already? Because if the pages were just printed then the loss by reprinting 1/6th of those would be great, but not unbearable - or so I guess.


Not only are the books already printed and bound, but in a shipping container on their way to warehouses. In fact, by this point, they're already there.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby jyster » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:28 pm

The problem is they used the original text from the basic book instead of the pocket edition. I guess they used the wrong file for the new edition. This isn't about a few typos, it's about going from the new edition back to first edition. So if you got the original book, that's basically what you get.

It's a shame, I didn't buy the first book because it had a lot of errors. I bought the pocket edition and the GM screen plus the misc adventures. Didn't buy the campaign book, because of the errors also.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Ser Barristan » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:23 pm

I bought the first edition of the game and was nothing but disappointed with the sheer amount of errata. I was going to give the game another chance with the release of the new edition but it does not look like I will do so now.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby nakraal » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:46 pm

It's out this week? Wow I always got the impression that it was to get out mid June and maybe July.

Well as I am considering purchasing and many others would surely do, is there any chance we could get a scope of the approximate amount of errata? For example are all the chapters reversed back, many or few of them?

And would the people ordering GoT get any kind of decreased price for ordering a corrected version if there is any later on?
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby aprewett » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:44 pm

Have to say this is one reason I always loved the Harn product line as the books are not 'books' but all loose leaf and if an errata is needed they only have to reprint the offending page. They have great customer service for that.

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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Captain Liberty » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:08 pm

I have the original 2009 hardback of the game. Is there anywhere I can download all the current errata to ensure my game is up to date on all the rules please?
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby skywalker » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:23 pm

SamH wrote:
jyster wrote:Basically these are the editions so far.
1.0 Basic
2.0 Pocket Edition
3.0 GoT Edition

From what I've been able to gather from reading threads like this one and another at RPGnet, it appears that the Game of Thrones Edition isn't a full-on reversion to the 1.0 ruleset. Some has gone back, but some hasn't and still more has been changed into something entirely new.

You're well within your rights to not buy a product from any company you choose, of course. Let's just not say things about that product and that company that aren't wholly true.


The most detailed analysis to date suggests that most if not all errata added to the Pocket Edition hasn't gone into the GoT Edition. No one has confirmed 100% either way, so what is being said could well be true.

Are you able to confirm otherwise?
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Mrjamespj » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:49 pm

So the book is out this week? Being in the UK does that mean it is on it's way to me or it will be posted ON the day of release?

Thanks
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby SamH » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:03 am

skywalker wrote:The most detailed analysis to date suggests that most if not all errata added to the Pocket Edition hasn't gone into the GoT Edition. No one has confirmed 100% either way, so what is being said could well be true.

Are you able to confirm otherwise?

I can only go by what's been said here, and that is that lots have reverted, some hasn't and some stuff is entirely new. So it's not accurate to say that the new edition is just a reprint of the first edition.

I have no dog in this fight, as I bought the first edition and am happy with it — except for the Narrator's chapter, which I'm forbidden from reading for now — and am not in the market for an all-new rulebook. The day may come when I spring for the Game of Thrones Edition, but today is not that day.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Captain Liberty » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:21 am

Where can one find all the current errata/clarifications please?
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Jon Snow » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:19 pm

Mine arrived on my doorstep today!

Great looking book!
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Carriker » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:31 pm

Captain Liberty wrote:Where can one find all the current errata/clarifications please?


It's not up yet. It's one of the many things I'm working on at the moment.

Thanks.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Captain Liberty » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:35 pm

Thanks, Carriker!
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby skywalker » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:15 pm

SamH wrote:I can only go by what's been said here, and that is that lots have reverted, some hasn't and some stuff is entirely new. So it's not accurate to say that the new edition is just a reprint of the first edition.


The only detailed posts on this thread suggest that the new edition is first edition plus new material:

Abulia wrote:
Jon Snow wrote:We're making it seem like the text has reverted back to the pre errata form. It hasn't.

It has. If you open the 2009 core book and the GoT edition and read them side-by-side, the text is clearly from that edition, NOT the Pocket Edition. Verbiage in the PE that was cleaned up to be clearer is now back to its original 2009 form. The original core book text was clearly the basis of this edition.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby theharper » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:42 am

So...we can literally throw the Pocket Edition away? I mean from the rules point of view if all future products will be 100% based on the GoT Edition...what is the use of the PE?
Being one who purchased all the books (paper versions as well) until GoT it is a pity that basically all of them will be useless...
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Captain Liberty » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:09 am

I don't think it will be useless at all.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby jyster » Thu May 03, 2012 11:27 pm

theharper wrote:So...we can literally throw the Pocket Edition away? I mean from the rules point of view if all future products will be 100% based on the GoT Edition...what is the use of the PE?
Being one who purchased all the books (paper versions as well) until GoT it is a pity that basically all of them will be useless...


No, not unless you get the pdf, because the print book is FUBARed. I believe the pdf has been edited correctly, but I could be wrong, actually just wait til someone in the know says something.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby rulandor » Sat May 05, 2012 11:09 am

As soon as the GoT edition arrived this side of the Atlantic, I couldn't resist buying it.

I sampled the errata situation and randomly checked half a dozen errata which had been included in the Pocket Edition. As it is, all those checked were also included in the GoT edition. Two of the errata checked were complete sentences; that had been corrected in PE; they are still correct in GoTE.

Some errors retained in the PE are now removed in the GoTE: "dexter" and "sinister" in Heraldry are finally done right. The obscure trait of "Reason" in the rules for training animals has finally been changed to Cunning.

The notorious Head for Numbers quality is now indeed in its "third edition". The GoT version is the most plausible.

These are all samples, mind you; I have not checked the whole shebang.

So, the situation doesn't seem so bad.

Also, they new supernatural benefits are well done, reflecting the new information from A Dance with Dragons.

The layout is superb, and we finally get all reference tables together at the end of the book.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Abulia » Sat May 05, 2012 3:31 pm

Abulia wrote:The question posed was what is GR going to do now for those that invested in this printed edition with the errors? What is GR going to do to remediate their concerns? What "damage control" are you doing for them?

PDF owners can expect a fixed version for free. Based on this thread, it appears that all owners of the printed edition can expect is the aforementioned apology. Is that correct?

Quoting myself a week or two later because this hasn't been answered. Can we assume that GR's official comment on the GoT "Error Edition" print copies resolution is "tough luck?" Well, aside from the aforementioned apology, that is? No buyback or exchange, ala Mongoose/Conan?

Just to keep everyone informed, GR never responded back as to why I didn't get my entire refund and they kept $3.05. Not that I care, but it points to their overall disorganization.

And, for the final bit of irony, adding insult to injury, I provide you this from the GR blog by Marc Schmalz, Director of Electronic Publishing, posted on April 6th, 2012. (Emphasis mine.)
Marc Schmalz wrote:We usually try to release a book digitally as soon as we're ready to go to press. I like to think this makes everyone happy. You get access to the material as soon as possible, and we get thousands of new eyes reviewing a digital copy of the book in time to make changes to the print version. Yes, our early PDF purchasers are also our last line of proofreaders, but we do try to make the books as solid as we can before we release them. The errata get integrated as quickly as possible because we want the changes in the print edition, and we also try to make the PDF updates available at the same time.

So, what the hell happened in this case? Joe, why are you trying to put in place a process that supposedly already exists?
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Abulia » Sat May 05, 2012 3:38 pm

theharper wrote:So...we can literally throw the Pocket Edition away? I mean from the rules point of view if all future products will be 100% based on the GoT Edition...what is the use of the PE?

Actually, the PE is the cleanest, least error-free version of them all, IMO. It's our defacto standard for rules at my table. Since the binding on my PE is already failing (strange, that), I might get another one.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Carriker » Sat May 05, 2012 8:42 pm

Abulia wrote:Can we assume that GR's official comment on the GoT "Error Edition" print copies resolution is "tough luck?" Well, aside from the aforementioned apology, that is? No buyback or exchange, ala Mongoose/Conan?

You can assume that I don't have an answer for you yet. That's all a lack of answer indicates.

You seem pretty intent on casting us in the worst light possible, however. So feel free to interpret that however you want to. Just know that's your own inference, that you made up all on your own. I don't have an answer yet, and when I do, you'll be informed.

Abulia wrote:Just to keep everyone informed, GR never responded back as to why I didn't get my entire refund and they kept $3.05. Not that I care, but it points to their overall disorganization.

Who did you email about it, and when? I'll ping the folks responsible for answering those sorts of questions.

Abulia wrote:So, what the hell happened in this case? Joe, why are you trying to put in place a process that supposedly already exists?

That is the case with the majority of our books. The printers we used in this printing are in China, and the process of getting them done is about three months - a great deal longer than our other books. For the most part, that time is worked into the process for those other books. It wasn't for this one because of the incredibly long lead-in time.

My statement stands, although you seem to be trying really hard to turn me into some kind of liar. We're taking the steps necessary to gain the extra time to books printed with the longer printers as well to make sure that we can put the PDFs in your hands before they go to print. It'll mean a hellacious amount of time between release of PDFs and the print book, but we've heard the message that you want the PDF first and foremost, so we're going to make that happen.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Mrjamespj » Sun May 06, 2012 12:18 am

I think folks are over-reacting a bit. I'm one of the guys who has gone through the pdf and found numerous small errors, and when the book arrived you know what? I thought it was beautiful and really useful, nothing in there stops a game from running properly.

One of my biggest likes is that the table colours have changed from that dark blue to a more greyish-blue, makes everything a lot nicer on the eye I find.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby rulandor » Sun May 06, 2012 5:47 am

I want to chime in again.

Meanwhile I checked several errata entries more of the former editions - more than a dozen now. Again, I didn't find a single case where the version of the Pocket Edition has fallen back to the first edition. I am a bit surprised, after what some people said in this thread.

My reference for checking is, by the way, the official errata list available on the internet; most of these errata had been put right in the Pocket Edition, and as I said, that version seems to be retained in the GoTE - at least all that I have checked.

So, I am now finished with this issue. I am gonna stop bitching about this book.

By the way, I did found one error yet. The "Third Eye" has been eliminated from the qualities list, but is still referred to in the chapter about "Magic in the Game".
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Carriker » Sun May 06, 2012 6:21 am

Thanks, folks, for weighing in on this.

I do want to emphasize that a small number of old rules did indeed creep back into the rule-set. But it really is a very small number, by far outweighed by the errata properly implemented, and other rules brought up to date for the first time.

I haven't harped on this fact because I don't believe in arguing with customers in a public forum. But the good in this edition far and away outweighs the "bad". It's a book I'm inordinately proud of, a book that the vast majority of folks who have purchased it have loved (and been vocal to us about loving it).

There absolutely will be a PDF of Errata. There absolutely will be updates to the PDF edition of the rules, allowing those who have that PDF to re-download the corrected one. We absolutely will be using that corrected PDF on future (far future, really) reprints of the book.

Those are the steps we're absolutely doing. I can't promise more than that. Frankly, I don't think the condition of the book warrants more: the game is playable, the mistakes are actually very thin on the ground. If you think otherwise, I am sorry, but that's what we're willing and able to do. If you've got some other ideas, I'd love to hear them.
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Re: GoT Edition PDF vs. PDF Version 1.1 vs. Original Edition

Postby Jon Snow » Sun May 06, 2012 9:41 am

I said this three weeks ago but it's worth saying again. This is my go to version now. The vast, and I do mean vast, majority of errata and clarifications are there. What's missing I deem mostly minor clarifications. Also, there are some things that the only place you can find the correct version is in this book. In my opinion, the book is a fantastic upgrade in both look and content (adventures for many sessions included) and I want to thank GR and Joe for making it happen. I hope the campaign guide turns out as well!
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