Rules clarification: Weapons Training

[Legate]

I am little confused with the Training rule under weapon use on p. 195 of the Pocket Edition. How exactly does it work? Do you have to have a specialty higher then what is listed on the weapons chart to not get the penalty to use the particular weapon?

[theharper]

hi Legata,

Yes, it works exactly like this. For instance, if you would like to use a bestard sword, you will have to have at least a +1B long blades specialty or you will be penalized by a -1 Test dice on Fighting using such a weapon.
I hope it helped.

cheers,
theharper

[Kival]

You DO lose the Bonus-training dice though. The difference is that you do not lose 1D but only 1B if you have the relevant specialisation.

[theharper]

Yes, thank you Kival. I have left this very important information out...

[Jon Snow]

Another way to think of it is training dice is the cost of using the weapon. You have to pay it (it comes from your dice before they're rolled). If you don't have the Bonus dice to pay, you pay in Test Dice (as a Penalty Dice).

EDIT: For clarification.

[Kival]

You should remember though that -1D is not one dice less it's transfering a normal dice into a Bonus dice. So if you have 4D in fighting and want to use a lance, you actually have 3+1B now. It's not called that way, but "rolling the dice and taking the worst away after bonus-dice" is obviously the same as a bonus-dice.

[Jon Snow]

You should remember though that -1D is not one dice less it's transfering a normal dice into a Bonus dice. So if you have 4D in fighting and want to use a lance, you actually have 3+1B now. It's not called that way, but "rolling the dice and taking the worst away after bonus-dice" is obviously the same as a bonus-dice.

Exactly. I didn't make that clear originally.

If you pay in Test Dice it is as a Penalty Dice.

[Legate]

Ok, things are still a little brackish here. So, if you had two PCs using bastard swords in a melee both with Fighting 4 but one with a specialization (long blades +1B). The one with the specialization would have no penalty, but the other would roll 4 dice and discard one result for the -1D, is that correct?

[Zorbeltuss]

well, yes. Though the one with specialization still have a penalty by not receiving the +1B he would if he was fighting with a longsword.

[Legate]

So, then you are minus the training modifer no matter what your specialization level is?

[Jon Snow]

The one with specialization would roll 4 and keep 4 (losing the bonus dice due to training requirement)

The one without specialization would roll 4 but only keep 3 because of the penalty dice.

[Legate]

Ok, pretty sure I've got it now. Thanks for the info.

[rulandor]

Then the way my gamers persuaded me to do it seems to be a house rule: as soon as the minimum Bonus dice are achieved, all penalties are cancelled in our games.

[Legate]

Then the way my gamers persuaded me to do it seems to be a house rule: as soon as the minimum Bonus dice are achieved, all penalties are cancelled in our games.

Yeah, I've been thinking of doing something similar. Though doing so could take a little away from the Weapon Savant quality.

[crowofpyke]

Then the way my gamers persuaded me to do it seems to be a house rule: as soon as the minimum Bonus dice are achieved, all penalties are cancelled in our games.

This is what my group does as well. The rules for this as written are a little clunky, so we just house ruled it.

There can be a lot of simplicity in a rpg system when using D6's, and sometimes this rules set does make things far more complicated than they need to be for a system using D6's.

(The opposite end of that is Shadowrun rpg, also a D6 rpg, that is notorious for the holes in the rules you can drive a tank through.... So, houserules abound.)

[Kival]

Then the way my gamers persuaded me to do it seems to be a house rule: as soon as the minimum Bonus dice are achieved, all penalties are cancelled in our games.

This is what my group does as well. The rules for this as written are a little clunky, so we just house ruled it.

I don't like it and I think it's necessary complexity because if a trained guy does not get any penalty using a bastardsword, why should e.g. anyone trained use a longsword instead of a bastardsword?

Probably something for a different thread but why do you think do the used dices define the complexity in any way?

[Carriker]

Probably something for a different thread but why do you think do the used dices define the complexity in any way?

That's exactly what they do. That training penalty reflects that not all weapons are as easy to use as others. No matter how skilled you are, a longsword is always going to be just a little easier to use adroitly than a bastard sword is.

[Kival]

Probably something for a different thread but why do you think do the used dices define the complexity in any way?

That's exactly what they do. That training penalty reflects that not all weapons are as easy to use as others. No matter how skilled you are, a longsword is always going to be just a little easier to use adroitly than a bastard sword is.

Oh, yeah I very much agree here as I thought I made clear. My question was regarding the kind of dice used (d6 vs. d10 etc.) because crowofpyke said:

There can be a lot of simplicity in a rpg system when using D6's, and sometimes this rules set does make things far more complicated than they need to be for a system using D6's.