Dwarven Templar

[Jekias]

I have a player in my current campaign who has expressed that he wishes to become a Templar. I've done some reading and theres no real precedent in the game (that I can tell so far) for this build.

The best idea I've come up with to date is for him to find a disgraced Templar and to somehow convince them to teach him the skills etc.

Has anyone else had a player wanting something similar to this and how have you ruled it/played it out?

(looking for ideas from other GMs/players essentially)

[empyrien]

One of the warriors in my group wanted the Templar specialisation but didn't want to join the order. While the party was raiding a maleficarum nest I had the warrior in question rescue a female Templar who was being held in the basement. A few weeks after that the warrior approached the female Templar and inquired about training. When he mentioned he didn't want to join the Templar order she offered to train him in secret (as she felt she owed him her life). So they began meeting after dark in secluded areas of Denerim, and she smuggled some of the carefully prepared lyrium out to awaken his Templar abilities.

It's certainly possible for warrior to acquire the Templar abilities without joining the order.

As another alternative, If the dwarf in question had converted to the Chantry's belief system I would probably let them just join the Templar order if that is what they want. It would be a very unusual occurrence, but there is precedent for dwarven converts (e.g. Brother Berkel).

[newbiedm]

Read this thread where the writer of the videogame is quoted on the topic. Short answer: they can.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/35709

[empyrien]

Also, given the explicit mention in the rules about the stacking of dwarven magic resistance with templar magic resistance to give a total of +3 to resist spells, it's fairly clear that they expected dwarves to be able to take the Templar specialisation.

[Jekias]

I like empyrien's example of the templar teaching in secret so I think I'll sue something similar as I sort of began alluding to in my original post.

Thanks for the link too newbiedm

I might make the player in this instance work a bit harder to explain why they should be a templar as well

[Lynata]

From the games and the books, I've gotten the impression that the Templar Order, actually the entire Chantry is pretty humanocentric. Until I see a dwarven templar in official material, I'll continue to assume they would not exist. Apart from racial concerns, the issue of a dwarf signing up is further complicated by one of the requirements being fervent faith in the Chant of Light, and though you could probably whip up some crazy story about a dwarven convert, it sounds very much like a one-in-a-million exception and rather "special snowflake", if you catch my drift.

That being said, the perception of character realism as well as setting specifics is very much subject to personal interpretation, so I suggest having a talk with your entire group about this and then decide which approach you as GM will be going to take.

Read this thread where the writer of the videogame is quoted on the topic. Short answer: they can.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/35709

I call shenanigans on that supposed quote. The citation cannot be found on google and the given source itself returns a 404 error and is neither saved in google's cache nor the Internet Archive.

I recall it was once explained that the specializations available to the player character in the computer games are not to be taken literal and they merely concern a given skillset, not necessarily conveying automatic membership or even only deeper knowledge into whatever organization it is affiliated with. For example, in DA:O the player character can learn the templar spec from Alistair, yet that doesn't render the character a member of the Order.
Perhaps David Gaider may have meant this and his statement was taken out of context?

Of course, this is also how you could "twist" it for a dwarf (or an elf, or an Avvar, ...), essentially allowing him to use the mechanics of the specialization without any of the actual background.

For example, you could probably invent something like a dwarven "Blight Hunter" using the templar spec in all but its name if you'd want to go down that route; personally I would regard this as somewhat more compatible to the established background than any alternatives, should you care for this kind of consistency. Writing down your own fluff for this specialization (or allowing the dwarf player to suggest a concept!) could even be fun, in a creative development way of things.

I myself would prefer to keep the various specializations unique to their distinctive cultural spheres, but then again I am more conservative than most when it comes to these things, hence my suggestion to check how everyone in your actual group is feeling about it.

[Hellebore]

I'm surprised dwarves didn't invent templar skills. You need to be exposed to lyrium and train in ways to drain magic from mages. Given that dwarves have plenty of lyrium, no mages and fight against darkspawn with plenty of mages one would imagine developing ways to kill their magic abilities would be high on the Dwarfs' list of 'things to do'.

In the end the Templar specialisation only represents a set of skills. The Templar order simply uses those skills. Obviously anyone that can get training/instruction manuals on lyrium use/magic suppression can learn the same skills.

Berserker was a specialisation created by dwarves that eventually got learned by humans. Arcane Warrior was a specialisation created by elves that has been learned by humans.

I hardly think that allowing non humans to have learned the templar specialisation is harder than this. There have been plenty of templars either corrupted or given up their vows. Surely they could go off and become mercenaries selling their secret templar skills to the highest bidder?

Tenplars have been around since not long after the appearance of the first divine. In that time surely one templar has written down/taught their skills to someone else? The grey wardens perhaps.

Hellebore

[Elfie]

There is absolutely precedent in the video game for this. Just make a Dwarf Warrior PC and then be really friendly with Alistair, and you can eventually convince him to teach you the Templar Specialization. There's plenty of talk about how he doesn't think he should, but if you're far enough on his good side, eventually he'll cave.

Now as for actually JOINING the order, I highly doubt it. The PC would have to be a pretty extreme devotee to Andraste and/or the Order's specific teachings and goals. Perhaps if he made it a personal mission to deliver (live) apostates to the tower until the Order deemed him worthy and granted him admission.

Alternatively, you could just use the Templar mechanics and call it something else. Maybe this character REALLY hates mages, so his specialization is Mage-Killer.

[Lynata]

I'm surprised dwarves didn't invent templar skills. You need to be exposed to lyrium and train in ways to drain magic from mages. Given that dwarves have plenty of lyrium, no mages and fight against darkspawn with plenty of mages one would imagine developing ways to kill their magic abilities would be high on the Dwarfs' list of 'things to do'.

The problem with that might be that dwarves have developed an innate resistance to lyrium, simply due to living so close to it - so it may not have the same "boost" for them as it has to humans, much like a drug-addict won't be getting the same effect from a shot as someone who has never sampled it before. Dwarves get the magic resistance by default, and that's it.

Now, Surface Dwarves are said to lose this resistance over time so it might work better for them, but on the other hand Surface Dwarves don't have to deal with Darkspawn and thus more or less lack a reason to work on such techniques in the first place (exceptions may apply).

But yeah, as I said, it'd still be the most sensible approach to the issue. Even though such a profession is absent from the official material, simply assuming that the aforementioned boost is still able to unlock the potential for templar-like abilities (if only barely) and thus enable the training of dwarven anti-mage specialists might seem much less lore-bending than non-humans actually joining the Order.

In addition, you could also come up with more negative effects to the consumption of additional lyrium rations to explain why the dwarves don't just train everyone in these skills - essentially making this job undesirable and only taken by those who are truly dedicated to it instead of incorporating it into the basic training for all their soldiers (which would otherwise be the obvious thing to do for a nation controlling the lyrium market). For example, if lyrium makes addicted, it might be that withdrawal syndroms could kick in faster and harder for dwarves when they are consuming extra doses of lyrium in addition to having been permanently surrounded by it to begin with.
Just as an idea to get you started!

Perhaps you could even rework the exact details of how the mechanics work, making the dwarven "templar" a little bit different from the human version.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

For example, you could probably invent something like a dwarven "Blight Hunter" using the templar spec in all but its name if you'd want to go down that route; personally I would regard this as somewhat more compatible to the established background than any alternatives, should you care for this kind of consistency. Writing down your own fluff for this specialization (or allowing the dwarf player to suggest a concept!) could even be fun, in a creative development way of things.

I'm surprised dwarves didn't invent templar skills. You need to be exposed to lyrium and train in ways to drain magic from mages. Given that dwarves have plenty of lyrium, no mages and fight against darkspawn with plenty of mages one would imagine developing ways to kill their magic abilities would be high on the Dwarfs' list of 'things to do'.

Hmm. In a recent campaign I played a dwarf who really wanetd to be a templar. He found an excuse to travel to the surface as part of a business expedition then pestered the local chantry. He essentialy wanted to learn the skills of the templars and take them abck to Orzammar so he could create a specialised dwarven team of Emissary hunters.

Now the templars (who were pretty much all human) refused to teach him because he refused to convert to the worship of the maker but they did let slip that it was something to do with the use of lyrium (and the lyrium smuggling problem they were having localy). So my dwarf took to experimenting with powdered lyrium - often lacing the mage's food with it to see what the results would be. As you can imagine this didn't end well .

And lots of fun was had by all.

[Loswaith]

Haps a bit of a dwarven spin on templar skills.

The legion of the dead dont speak much of thier time with outsiders, but with little time left to me I witnessed one of their most extrodinary warriors sunder a hurlock spell out of the very air dissipating it, preventing what would have been much devistation to our ranks. Few would talk about the warriors power but from what I could gather he had been part of the legion for longer than most. Eventually I got to talking to him over a meal and much ale, I managed to cajole the story of his life and incedentally this ability from the dwarf. It seems a few are able to hone the ability but those able can take the innate dwarven resistance to magic and push or twist it into a weapon letting them sunder and destroy the fabric of fade energies. -- Excerpt from unknown grey wardens journal, found within the deep roads.

Magebane
Requirement: You must have Strength and Willpower of 3 or higher, and must be a dwarf.
Novice: Your natural dwarven magic resistance is increased by +1. If you are a surface dwarf you gain a +2 bonus on tests to resist the effects of spells and other magical attacks.
Journeyman: You are able to focus your resistance to spells and magic into a weapon, your blows can drain mages of their mana. When you do damage to a mage (or any creature that uses mana) with a melee attack, your target loses 1d6 + your willpower mana points in addition to taking normal damage.
Master: You are able to focus your resistance to spells and magic into a weapon or shield enabling you to destroy spells or magic. As a major action you are able to sunder incoming projectile or ongoing spells by making an attack test at TN: 15. If successful the spell is destroyed and either has no effect or is ended. Incoming projectile spells can be sundered using a shield instead of a weapon, in which case the shields defencive bonus is added to the attack test, but the dwarf loses the shield's defencive bonus untill the next round.

Just something off the top of my head for a templar alternative for dwarves.