Backgrounds - Set 3 Option(?)

[JRHigley]

Reading a few of the early comments on the open playest I see some folks are are hoping for additional backgrounds.

Perhaps it's just me, but I think there are already TOO MANY backgrounds. If you count up all of the backgrounds available from sets 1,2, and 3-beta, you have 31(!!!) backgrounds available! And each one of these backgrounds has game mechanics ("...modify your character as follows...") associated with it: add 1 to a stat...pick a focus...additional languages...class limitations...roll twice on the table for more mechanics to back up the flavor....

Please don't take this to mean that I don't LOVE the flavor/the fluff/the way these backgrounds put real flesh on the bones of Thedas, because I do.

I think that 31 background choices at character creation is overwhelming.
I think that 31 separate "modify your character as follows" lists and tables is just too many.

This could be accomplished with three:

There are three races to choose from: Human, Dwarf, and Elf. Choosing a race modifies your character in several ways. These are spelled out in each description.

Human
If you choose to play a human, modify your character as follows:
• You can speak and read the Trade Tongue.
• Add 1 to any ability of your choosing. Humans are versatile.
• Pick any ability focus. Humans are widely skilled.
• Choose a class. You can play a mage, rogue, or warrior.

Elf
If you choose to play an elf, modify your character as follows:
• Add 1 to your Dexterity ability. Elves have natural grace and agility.
• Pick one of the following ability focuses: Dexterity or Perception.
• You can speak and read Elven and the Trade Tongue.
• Choose a class. You can play a mage, rogue, or warrior.

Dwarf
If you choose to play a dwarf, modify your character as follows:
• Add 1 to your Constitution ability. Dwarves are famous for their toughness.
• Pick one of the following ability focuses: Strength or Willpower.
• You have Magic Resistance, a a +2 bonus to resist the effects of spells and other magical attacks.
• You can speak and read Dwarven and the Trade Tongue.
• Choose a class. You can play either a warrior or a rogue.

Then let the (interested) player browse all of that fantastic "background" description to help them with their character concept, ties, and goals. Or let the (uninterested/novice) player jump right into rolling dice and stunting!

Come on GR - put some sort of lighter option in just as you did with the "Ability Options" in Set 2 (pp.25-26)....

[Elfie]

Yeah I've actually started pretty much letting the player come up with any background they can think of and then just using the existing backgrounds as a model for what sorts of things they can pick / what stats they might be able to raise. It'd be nice if Set 3 came with specific rules for free-style backgrounds.

[La Cipolla]

What you suggest would perhaps be realized easier by grouping the existing backgrounds up into subcategories. I don't think they are overwhelming as you only need the rules for the one background which fits your concept best (and here the GM can help) - but yes, grouping them up with regard to race or region would make things a bit faster.

Your option (the races) is just another focus. Which is Ok, but I wouldn't want to present it as a possible solution for your problem... or what you thought was your problem. ^^

[Arimmus]

I actually like the amount of Backgrounds. I mean, each region has something some trade or skill set that another doesnt. If you are a noble you wouldn't have the same skills as a commoner correct? the same for if your from Orlais to Tevinter.

[Disemvowel]

Uh oh...someone forgot the Qunari...racist

[shonuff]

I'm still waiting for Saarebas and Dwarf Mage.... although depending on how DA3 plays out Dwarf Mage may be relegated to important story NPCs.

[Jekias]

I'm still waiting for Saarebas and Dwarf Mage.... although depending on how DA3 plays out Dwarf Mage may be relegated to important story NPCs.

Saarebas has an entry in the Adversaries section in S3. Based on what I know, the only way you realistically play one would to be a rebel who has escaped because they are even more restricted than circle mages are. I suspect an escaped Saarebas would have a lot of problems tho.. It would take (in my game) a very substantial reason as to why and how they escaped.

Code: Select all

The Qunari treat the Saarebas with the utmost caution, as they do with mages in general, referring to unrestrained ones as "Bas Saarebas". Saarebas must be carefully controlled by a device held by an Arvaarad, "one who holds back evil", because they cannot truly control themselves. The Qunari pity and honor the Saarebas, for striving while under constant threat from within is truly selfless, the highest virtue of the Qun. The strict and regimented treatment of Circle mages by the templars pales in comparison to that of the Saarebas by the Qunari.

Where the Circle mages have relative freedom within their towers, Saarebas are seemingly prisoners within their own body, donning a set of heavy pauldrons with chains attached to them, perhaps to act as a form of leash, while their faces are hidden beneath a metal visor. They have their lips stitched together, although this does not seem to prevent them from speaking normally and might be a symbolic gesture.

Source: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Saarebas

And my thinking suggests that Dwarf Mage would need to be something you make yourself as it wouldn't fit into the standard DA game rules. If you look at the existing material, they have been faithful to the core game idea and a dwarven mage isn't really one of those. Given that, it would be interesting to see what you could come up with (and the reasoning behind a dwarf being able to be a mage as well).

[JRHigley]

Uh oh...someone forgot the Qunari...racist

Ack! I totally forgot about them. I guess four options rather than three....

[Sidmen]

I rather enjoy the backgrounds idea - it makes a statement that it doesn't matter what you are, it matters where you came from. Instead of saying "All dwarves are X" it says "All dwarven nobles have X, while dwarven urchins have Y".

But yeah, it probably wouldn't matter if you melted them all down into a basic grouping. Heck, I completely got rid of backgrounds and races, instead using a mutation system that lets you be anything under the sun - from immortal gods to pure humans to elves and dwarves.

[DracoDruid]

The whole Background thing was one point why I started my Form-Free system (advertising alert ),
The basic intention might have been good, but the more backgrounds they present and the more subtle the differences (fereldan freeman, fereldan craftsman, fereldan farmer, fereldan rhyot-farmer, ...) the less sense the whole thing just makes.

Escpecially when some Backgrounds don't make that much sense. Example: Fereldan Priest = craftsman = +1 DEX ?!

If using the Background mechanic, putting them together by race would be much simpler and less overwhelming.

I mean, seriously, we are talking about 1 or 2 ability bonuses and 2-4 focuses. That's not THAT big a deal.
(Okay, it's not that bad, but seriously...)

I lost my thread so I will stop now.

Cheers and have a nice remaining week.

[shonuff]

Saarebas has an entry in the Adversaries section in S3. Based on what I know, the only way you realistically play one would to be a rebel who has escaped because they are even more restricted than circle mages are. I suspect an escaped Saarebas would have a lot of problems tho.. It would take (in my game) a very substantial reason as to why and how they escaped.

Bas Saarebas is what I meant, thanks. And you're right -- there would be problems, but that doesn't mean that the background doesn't exist (look at the problems that exist to become an Arcane Warrior, and it was released for levels 6-10)

And my thinking suggests that Dwarf Mage would need to be something you make yourself as it wouldn't fit into the standard DA game rules. If you look at the existing material, they have been faithful to the core game idea and a dwarven mage isn't really one of those. Given that, it would be interesting to see what you could come up with (and the reasoning behind a dwarf being able to be a mage as well).

I don't know. There's a good deal of evidence for historical dwarven mages in DA2, and then you have Sandal killing everyone in DA:O with "Enchantment" but killing everyone in DA2 with "NOT enchantment" (emphasis mine). My own speculation (here's a grain of salt, btw) is that dwarven mages will come back in DA3, but how that translates to GR, I wouldn't know.

If you notice, there's no dwarven backgrounds (or Qunari/Kossith for that matter)... maybe something's in the works? Or maybe there's nothing at all.

[JRHigley]

...I completely got rid of backgrounds and races, instead using a mutation system that lets you be anything under the sun - from immortal gods to pure humans to elves and dwarves.

Sweet. Examples?

M&M conversion anyone?

[si1vergecko]

If you notice, there's no dwarven backgrounds (or Qunari/Kossith for that matter)... maybe something's in the works? Or maybe there's nothing at all.

I could be mistaken but I do seem to recall a couple Dwarven backgrounds.

And personally I do not mind all of the background options since that allows more flexibility for the player to do what they want more or less.

[Disemvowel]

I don't follow either; there are 4 dwarf backgrounds, and 2 qunari ones.

[shonuff]

Not in Set 3... unless I completely missed them.

[Lynata]

What you suggest would perhaps be realized easier by grouping the existing backgrounds up into subcategories.

I think so as well. I appreciate the large selection of backgrounds, they just need to be easier to find. I imagine most people already have a pretty solid understanding of what they want to play, but finding the right background can be tedious if they are all over the place.

A positive example: The 4th edition of the German P&P game "The Dark Eye" has players choose from race + culture + profession. The latter lets you choose from a selection of "jobs" to grant you a set of starting skills and abilities, basically the stuff you know as a result of your lifestyle. This is how much there is to choose from:
http://www.wiki-aventurica.de/wiki/Profession

It includes anything from farmers and fishermen to soldiers and knights (different ones, even!) to courier riders and falconers to witches and mages to clerics and surgeons, ... You can even play a character that used to be a whore or a courtesan. Including all supplements released so far, there is 497 professions to choose from.

And it's not a problem at all, simply because they are grouped by categories so that people can easily find what they are looking for.

[Sidmen]

...I completely got rid of backgrounds and races, instead using a mutation system that lets you be anything under the sun - from immortal gods to pure humans to elves and dwarves.

Sweet. Examples?

M&M conversion anyone?

I was going to post my mutation system in my "Sidmen's Houserules" thread, but then I started re-writing them.

But Examples:
I want to play a straight-up god of a volcano (my gods are strongly tainted by their presentation in the game Exalted), so I'll grab: Ageless (can't age), Darksight (ignore penalties from lack of light), Holy (I gain bonuses in my shrines), Spirit Shift (I can become material for a short time), Tireless (Never suffer from fatigue), Unsleeping (no need to sleep either), Diet (I can eat only Prayers to me), Armored Hide (my volcanic skin increases my Armor Rating by 3), Elemental Immunity (I can't be hurt by fire or heat), Dragon's Breath (I can unleash a magma attack (using dex) inflicting 3d6 damage on everyone in a 6-yard cone), Immaterial (I'm naturally immaterial, things cannot touch, hear, smell, or see me unless they can perceive the immaterial, flip side is I cannot affect them), Immortal (If I die, I'll regenerate over the next few months), Unbreathing (nope, don't need air either)..

I could go on and justify some other things, and yes they do have actual rules to them, and this god would cost a ton of XP to play (not entirely out of the realm of possibility for a player tho), but I think this is sufficient.

[JRHigley]

A positive example: The 4th edition of the German P&P game "The Dark Eye" has players choose from race + culture + profession. The latter lets you choose from a selection of "jobs" to grant you a set of starting skills and abilities, basically the stuff you know as a result of your lifestyle....

This looks to be a fairly elegant solution if you want to drill down beyond "race" and would map well to DA:
1. Pick Your Race: Dwarf, Elf, Human, Qunari(!!)
2. Pick Your Culture: Surface Dwarf, Dwarf Duster, Low-Born Dwarf, High-Born Dwarf
3. Pick your "Profesion" (There may be a better word): Warrior caste, Smith caste, Noble Caste.

Ta-Da!

Even if you wanted to keep a mechanical element tied to these choices, it is still very easy, particularly since there are esentially three elements to each background (caveat: languages and magic resistance) For example:

1. Race, Dwarf: Add 1 to your CON. Dwarves are famous for their toughness...
2. Culture, High-Born: You get the appropriate focus...
3. Profession, Smith: Roll on the table...