Current Opinions on Willpower vs Magic for MP

[empyrien]

I've been reading through the forums about the merits of using Willpower for MP instead of Magic. The idea appeals to me as it aligns better with the computer games, and I am also starting to be of the opinion that mages can basically pump Magic every second level without losing too much.

I'd like to give my mages some more encouragement to increase their Willpower so they are better prepared for the things I am going to throw at them (can anyone say "maleficarum"? )

I notice that a lot of the forum discussions are quite dated. With the introduction of ability advancements in Set 2 giving diminishing returns on single-stat focused builds, do people think this has balanced out the "one-stat" issue for mages? Or is Magic still too useful to bother putting points into Cunning and Willpower?

I thought getting an up-to-date version of people's viewpoints might help before I make the change in my DA campaign.

[DracoDruid]

Hmm... Good point there.

I thought of an option for the 1d6 per level for Health and Mana.
Instead the d6 you additionally receive +Strength on Health and +Willpower on Mana.

On the other hand, I REALLY would like to see the Magic Ability being useful for all classes.
There must be a reason (rule-bound) why templars use Lyrium and need a high Magic rating.
Like in DA2 as the basic ability for Magic Resistence.

When using this somehow, Magic should NOT be used for Mana, to balance this.

[shonuff]

I use willpower for MP, but I also don't use ability advancements. Instead I use a cap on how many times you can increase a stat in a row.

[Loswaith]

I persoanly go a different route and use Willpower for spell casting rolls, while leaving Magic to handle Spellpower and Mana as even with a low willpower a mage gets reasonable mana still. The main factor of that is that focuses for magic schools stay as Magic ability focuses (it matters little for a mage anyway as both willpower and magic are both primary abilities) but still add to spellcasting.

As for magic ability score, having moved to a levelless system has fixed the issues of higher stats as rarely does a player see the value in spending xp to increase above 5 or 6 when they can increase 2-4 points in other stats for the same expenditure. Though that said I never realy had the issue of my players heavily focusing on magic at the expence of other abilities.

Though I suspect the extra cost doesn't realy stop players spending it in magic alone as there are fewer reprecussions compared to benefits, but it may make them think on it a bit more than previously.

[empyrien]

I use willpower for MP, but I also don't use ability advancements. Instead I use a cap on how many times you can increase a stat in a row.

So if I understand this correctly, increasing a stat beyond 5 still just costs 1 "point" in your game, but you can't increase the same stat consecutively?

[shonuff]

I use willpower for MP, but I also don't use ability advancements. Instead I use a cap on how many times you can increase a stat in a row.

So if I understand this correctly, increasing a stat beyond 5 still just costs 1 "point" in your game, but you can't increase the same stat consecutively?

Sorta. You can't increase three times in a row. So at 2 & 4, a warrior can increase strength, but at 6 has to choose dex or con. IMO, it still limits abilities without putting a punishing delay in advancement; leveling up and not getting for it kinda blows.

One other problem that I have with ability advancements is that they should be racially diferentiated. A Qunari and an elf shouldn't have the same soft-cap on strength.

[empyrien]

For the moment I think I'll just warn the players with mage characters that I might be switching to Willpower for MP at some point in the future. Hopefully that means they will invest some points into Willpower so that their mana pools don't cut in half when I introduce the rule change.

One other problem that I have with ability advancements is that they should be racially diferentiated. A Qunari and an elf shouldn't have the same soft-cap on strength.

Definitely. This is one of the reasons why you kept stat increases as a linear cost, I assume. The only potential issue with that I see is, with a 3d6 based system, by the time the characters get to level 10+ they will be succeeding on every test and the mages will have huge spellpowers. Do you adjust the enemies to compensate for this?

[shonuff]

Haven't gotten that far yet! But I will probably.

The problem with most RPGs is that no matter the system, they're possible to game based on the provided rules. I remember a nasty D&D character who could kill anything in the Monsters Manual before it attacked basically. If I recall correctly, I soloed an ancient red dragon in two initiative categories. He upped the ante and made mobs that needed a set amount of damage to a very difficult called shot (the eyes) in the same initiative category, or they instantly regenerated. Some later bosses had over 10 actions in a round.

[Maliloki]

I use Willpowe for MP.

I also made it so that you only get state increases every even level (still switching between primary and secondary attributes), and a skill focus every odd level (but you don't have to switch between primary and secondary attributes).

As an added restriction, no primary attribute can go above 5 without magic and no secondary can go above 4 without magic. I came to this conclusion based on a black bear's strength of 6. I don't know of many people that could out strength a bear.