[New Class] - Alchemist

[Saisei]

Howdy folks.

Just thought I'd get some feedback from you nice people. I'm planning on 2 and maybe 3 new classes for my homebrew world using the age system. The setting was originally set in 4e DnD and then I moved part of it to Unisystem. With the new poison rules released in set two (and with poison and alcehmy and the like being integral to my setting) I think we might have a new home in AGE.

So my first class is the Alchemist.

I'm not going to bog people down with details on the world (maybe in a different post ) there are just a few details you need to know: As well as the Poison Making Talent, I'll also have Potion Making Talent (for salves and healing potions as well as Potions of Speed and the like).

To streamline this somewhat I've turned Cunning (Poison Lore) into Cunning (Alchemy). Rather than needing Cunning (Posion Lore) for Poison Making Talent AND Cunning (Potion Lore) for the Potion Making Talent now all you need is Cunning (Alchemy).

So I think that's all I need to explain. I made a spreadsheet and broke down the Mage, Rogue and Warior classes to see how I should create the class. From what I can glean each class gets 3 benefits at level one equivalent to a talent. I worked from there.

So here it is anyway!

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Alchemist

Talents: Choose two talents from Poison Making, Potion Making or Armour Training

Practiced Hands: Ready a potion or a poison as a free action

Primary Attributes: Cunning, Dexterity, Willpower

Secondary Attributes: Communication, Constitution, Magic, Perception, Strength

Starting Health: 20 + Con + 1D6

Weapon Groups: Brawling, Staves, Light Blades


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So that's the crunch of the class. Questions welcome. The thing I'd like to get feedback on most is starting health and primary attributes. I think Primary attributes are Dex and Cunning definitely. I think both Willpower (for dedication and focus) and Perception (for awareness of surroundings) make sense, so feedback please!

Thanks!

EDIT:

Forgot to put in the benefits at each level!

Level 2: You can research a new Alchemical Formula

Level 3: You become a novice in a new talent or gain a degree in a talent you already have.

Level 4: You can research a new Alchemical Formula
Swift Preperation - It takes you half the time it normally would to prepare either a potion or poison.

Level 5: You become a novice in a new talent or gain a degree in a talent you already have.


NOTE:

Above it says you can research a new formula rather than gain a new formula. I'll be making rules for this but I'm think an advanced test to piece together the formula then a success table based on dragon die.

1-3 Learn a novice formula
4-5 Learn a journeyman formula
6 Learn a master formula

[kronovan]

I think you're on the right path Saisei. I've been working on adding the missing Herbalism into my DAGE game. Interesting enough, I've been thinking of using a Cunning (Alchemy) focus with an Alchemy talent instead too. I looked at using the Cunning (Herbal lore) that was in the box set 2 playtest, but it doesn't make sense as many beneificial (non-poisionous) potions aren't necessarily herbal based. At least that's true for the DA-CRPG where you have things like Mabari Crunch and Inury Repair kits and going forward a lot of other possibilities.

That said, the alchemy is just 1 side of it - what about the Wild-crafting (finding, spotting, identifying, etc) side of it? The Herbal lore in the playtest was nice in that, at least if I recall correctly, it covered the collecting as well as the making/crafting. Since the Apostate/Mage due to their primary in Cunning, seem like naturals for beneficial/healing alchemy, I'm thinking of using Cunning (Natural Lore) for the wild-crating and allowing PC's to chose it as 1 or their 2 random background focuses - i.e it wouldn't be a random roll but a deliberate choice. My biggest problem is that I still don't have box set 2, and I really wanted to look at Poison making 1st. I was planning on intro'ing my Alchemy talent last Wednesday, but held off until I get the PDF.

[Ferai]

I'm not sure in this is really needed -- this class looks like a tweaked Mage and the Hunter looks a lot like a rogue to me.

To turn a mage into an alchemist, you could simply have a separate list of concoctions (sort of like the cleric/mage type split in old D&D) or black mage/white mage). But also, take a look at the Pathfinder alchemist for more ability ideas.

The problem I would say with an 'alchemist' class is that is sounds REALLY focused and mundane. Will they be the only ones to create potions? Can they only create potions? Are the potions from the Dragon Age game, or is there going to be more choices? Do you have to be an adventurer to be an alchemist?

The alchemist (and hunter) sounds like it might fit better as specialization for a character after they hit level 6.

In D&D 3e terms, it'd be like how adding to the base classes is a bad idea but prestige classes are okay.

[kronovan]

I tend to agree Ferai, from the DAGE perspective anyways, alchemy is really a side role. It's been so long since I've played D&D 3x that I'm not sure how well would it would work in a setting based on it. If I really wanted to create such a class I'd at least include both Potion making and Poison making as their talents. That said, I did play some RPG's back in the dark ages (80's ) in which some players would attempt to play with such a strict focus. Now if I was going to make such a class for the DAGE setting I'd combine both alchemy talents with a modified Apostate background - probably Kocari Wilds Human or Brecilian Forest Elf. Then I'd make Cunning (alchemy) as a base focus along with Cunning (Natural lore) and make Potion Making and Poison Making starting talents. I'd also include Cunning (Arcane Lore) in both of their background roll table. Since the goal is really to create a clever lore character, I'd remove something to keep things in balance - probably Arane Lance, but I'm not 100% about that.

[Edit] You could probably make this work for a Clever Rogue character too, but that requires much more thought.

[Saisei]

I tend to agree that new classes aren't really needed, but as I mentioned my players are looking for some more choice as regards classes and they seem to have responded well when I showed them these new classes.

I basically thought of the alchemist as a rogue/mage cross class almost. I don't expect them to be the only ones to make potions and the like but I wanted to give them some bonuses (kinda like with rogues and stealth)

And yep, Hunters are basically just a slightly tweaked rogue lol.

Thanks for the feedback folks. As long as they don't look unbalanced I'm happy.

[Ferai]

.. I had a similar problem when I tried to get my players interested in D20 Modern -- two of the players said they didn't like how "generic" the classes felt (Strong Hero, Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc), and even after I pointed out part of the point was to build up to the prestige classes (which were more like what people were used to), they didn't really agree.

While I can see your player's point to a degree, DAGE (good acronym there) is set up to accommodate the trifecta of heroes -- smart, strong or fast. Adding those two new classes would seem to upset that balance so if you're going to make new classes to plug in the gaps why not make 6 classes and provide options of mixing them all then?

Alchemist - Rogue/Mage
Hunter - Rogue/Warrior
Spellsword - Mage/Warrior

But then .. who wouldn't just play a spellsword?

If you're just looking at feedback in specific with what you've, however, the one thing I'd take away from the alchemist is the Armour Training talent. I'd say that's meant to be a warrior only thing -- especially if the alchemist is a thought of a mage/rogue combo (neither mage or rogue get access to that talent).

Further .. I would consider a blended class a giant bonus in itself in that it should be considered BOTH classes for what it can pick from for talents, but it maybe it should be a tad bit weaker because of that to provide a benefit to being a "pure" class.

[Loswaith]

I tend to agree that new classes aren't really needed, but as I mentioned my players are looking for some more choice as regards classes and they seem to have responded well when I showed them these new classes.
...

An alternative option for you could be to use an Archtype system. Im not sure how familur you are with the term so Ill explain.

The premis was designed in alot of older skill based games (shadowrun being a prime example) that they had premade designes of characters based on a theme or role, effectively being a more stringent class without actually being one.

This could work quite well for Dragon Age in that you take the basic class and pre-determine an Archtype that influences the build options for the class itself.

The hunter is a good example of a rogue Archtype, its basically a rogue but with a few set skills and talents its a Hunter Archtype instead.
You may find too as your players get more used to the idea they will try and diversify more too and thus open up options for less ridgid character classes as they further develop as gamers.

Archtypes are also good in that you can ask a player what they want to play and design an archtype specifically for their character concept.

[Saisei]

An alternative option for you could be to use an Archtype system. Im not sure how familur you are with the term so Ill explain.

The premis was designed in alot of older skill based games (shadowrun being a prime example) that they had premade designes of characters based on a theme or role, effectively being a more stringent class without actually being one.

This could work quite well for Dragon Age in that you take the basic class and pre-determine an Archtype that influences the build options for the class itself.

The hunter is a good example of a rogue Archtype, its basically a rogue but with a few set skills and talents its a Hunter Archtype instead.
You may find too as your players get more used to the idea they will try and diversify more too and thus open up options for less ridgid character classes as they further develop as gamers.

Archtypes are also good in that you can ask a player what they want to play and design an archtype specifically for their character concept.

Now there's an idea. That seems like it might just do the trick. I'll run it by people and see what they say.