Why ever take 2nd level expert?

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Re: Why ever take 2nd level expert?

Postby skywalker » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:06 pm

Nisarg wrote:Ok, so all of you gave me some good (and some not that good) reasons for why someone WOULDN'T bother to take a single level of expert just for the extra skills.

Here is another related question: let's assume you DID take a single level of expert.

Why in the world would you ever be motivated to take a second?


This question has been posed on these boards about 1 or 2 months ago in a slightly different context (I am sure there are others) here - http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6330&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Essentially, unless you want to specialise into combat or magic, then the Expert class remains the best overall Role. Not only do you have access to Expert only feats but it gets the mid level Combat bonus as well as 1 good save more than the other roles. Some people don't just want great magic or great combat and instead look for something in between. This is the role that the Expert fills perfectly.

When you crunch the numbers each role is best at doing exactly what it advertises. Warriors are best at Combat. Adepts are best at Magic. Experts are best at Skills and being the all rounder. I have seen all kinds of theories trying to show one role is better than the others but none have proven correct.
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Re: Why ever take 2nd level expert?

Postby timemrick » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:59 pm

Nisarg wrote:Other than for a couple of expert-only feats, I can't see why even a "rogue" type would want to take more levels in Expert when multiclassing will give him other cool Powerz with no real backlash (ie. his great strength, his skills, all continue to go up regardless).

Well...

A D&D-style "rogue" would eventually want Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Evasion, Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Evasion, and especially, Surprise Attack (up to 5 times!). That will require a few levels of Expert to acquire, even if one or two appear in the hero's background's favored feats list.

A D&D-style bard would want Fascinate, Inspire, Mass Suggest, and Suggest, plus some Adept levels for useful Powers.

A D&D-style monk would want Deflect Arrows, Slow Fall, Snatch Arrows, and Stunning Blow [also Martial].

And that's not even getting into the new character concepts allowed by True20's more flexible role system. I'd very much like to try a leader/"face" character built around Inspire, Master Plan, Skill Mastery, and Well-Informed, rather than less-subtle combat tricks or Powers.
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Postby Tim Gray » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:19 am

Yeah, I see the Expert role as the default. If you want supernatural powers be an Adept; if you want to be a real tank in combat, be a Warrior; otherwise be an Expert. You get decent fighting ability and good saves.
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Re: Why ever take 2nd level expert?

Postby Warzen » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:34 am

Nisarg wrote:Ok, so all of you gave me some good (and some not that good) reasons for why someone WOULDN'T bother to take a single level of expert just for the extra skills.

Here is another related question: let's assume you DID take a single level of expert.

Why in the world would you ever be motivated to take a second?


The saves !
And of course defensive roll if you have taken uncanny dodge.
It's a great addition, even for a maxed great toughness.

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Postby aaronil » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:05 pm

Nisarg, your point is well taken. I think it could be more precisely stated as: "The Expert concept is limited to the fast-talking, back-stabbing, well-informed rogue; I would like to see some support for other archetypes." In my True20 setting, I've made several Expert feats dependent upon your level as an Expert, with the feat scaling as your Expert levels increase (just like an Adept's powers in essence). I think this fix gives Expert PCs an meta-game reason to advance in the role.
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Postby Stareyes » Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:23 am

I might have to peruse some of the science fiction material out for d20 (Star Wars and d20 Future/d20 Modern) for good feats/class abilities for experts. I would think that a SF/Space Oepra setting would be a good place for an Expert to shine.
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