New Power: Find the Path

This forum has been locked to further posting but will be maintained here as an archive. Please visit http://true20.com for the True20 and Blue Rose forums.

New Power: Find the Path

Postby The Shadow » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:46 pm

This a power I've been toying around with. I'm not sure about the DC's.

FIND THE PATH

Fatiguing, Maintenance

This power shows the way to a specific subject.

For a DC of 0 + Familiarity, the adept learns the precise direction to the subject, which may be a person, place, or thing. (A person may make a Will save to resist.) If this is all that the adept desires, the use of the power is not fatiguing. Attempting anything more than this does risk fatigue, even if this level is all that is obtained.

If the roll is made by 5 or more, the adept instead is pointed along the most direct route to the subject. This route may involve danger, but it must be physically possible for the adept to follow.

If the roll is made by 10 or more, the adept is pointed to the most efficient route to the subject. This may take longer than the most direct route, but will be safer.

If the roll is made by 20 or more, the adept is guided around whatever dangers may infest the route.

The Narrator should make the roll secretly so the adept is not sure what level of finding has been attained. (Though the adept may restrict himself to the lowest level, as mentioned.)

Example: An adept seeks a kidnapped acquaintance (Familiarity +10), who the GM happens to know is held in a deep underground cavern.

If the adept reaches DC 10, the power indicates a direction more or less downward into the earth, with no indication of how far or how to get there.

DC 15 means the power tugs the adept to a nearby cave that ultimately leads to the friend's location. Unfortunately, a dragon makes its lair deep in the cave.

DC 20 means the power leads the adept to a safer entry to the Underdark.

DC 30 means the power warns the adepts of traps, tripwires, and ambushes along the chosen route. Not directly, with information, but by leading around them or the like.

------------------

See, I don't want to make it too easy to find really familiar objects, but I don't want it to be utterly impossible to find unfamiliar ones either. One idea I had was to take the familiarity of the subject or the familiarity of the location, whichever is worse?

Any suggestions?
Last edited by The Shadow on Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am

Postby Dork Elf » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:26 pm

I like it. I would use whichever familiarity is worse (subject or location) like you suggested, by the way.

If a Will save can contest this, does it mean the target is aware of being sniffed out?

I was going to suggest allowing either the fastest OR the wisest route to be found in case they wanted to chance a potentially more dangerous route in order to close in faster, but I like the mystery of the secret roll and the player not knowing what kind of path he/she walks in pursuit.

This requires maintenence, so finding a dangerous path could very easily mean losing the trail and having to reuse the power. I like that. I might just nick this one :)
Dork Elf
Bystander
Bystander
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:27 am
Location: London

Postby The Shadow » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:04 am

Dork Elf wrote:I like it. I would use whichever familiarity is worse (subject or location) like you suggested, by the way.

If a Will save can contest this, does it mean the target is aware of being sniffed out?


Actually, if we go with the worse of the two familiarities, I'd eliminate the Will save entirely.

One problem with doing things this way, though, is if the subject is moving around...

Also, often the subject will be in a location that is TOTALLY unfamiliar - which means the power won't work at all, which is silly. Ideas?

I was going to suggest allowing either the fastest OR the wisest route to be found in case they wanted to chance a potentially more dangerous route in order to close in faster, but I like the mystery of the secret roll and the player not knowing what kind of path he/she walks in pursuit.


Perhaps DC 15+Familiarity lets you pick whichever one you want? And sometimes, of course, the fast route and the wise route will be the same.
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am

Postby The Shadow » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:35 am

I should point out that the higher-DC uses of this power can get downright eerie. :)

Like, say your friend has had the D&D spell Imprisonment cast upon him. There IS no route to get to his location. What does the power do?

Well, it might lead you to the nearest scroll of Freedom. ;) Or to the nearest wizard who can cast it. If you get the efficient route, it might even lead you to the magic item that will convince the wizard to cast it for you...

(And after all that, of course it'll lead you to the spot where the Imprisonment took place.)
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am

Postby Dork Elf » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:40 am

The Shadow wrote:
Actually, if we go with the worse of the two familiarities, I'd eliminate the Will save entirely.

One problem with doing things this way, though, is if the subject is moving around...

Also, often the subject will be in a location that is TOTALLY unfamiliar - which means the power won't work at all, which is silly. Ideas?


As for moving around, i would make that an unavoidable problem with the power. Since one can lower rank to avoid fatigue loss with this power, maybe the adept can use the general direction, low DC check to stay updated on general direction, and if the target has moved, the adept will suspect this if the check fails? You could have it so if successful, it doesn't "rewrite" the path, but merely confirms general direction while keeping active the originally successful path.

Totally unfamiliar locations: this might be needlessly awkward, but you could say totally unfamiliar locations still allow for general direction success on an average DC unless the target is within a certain range. If close enough (maybe a mile?) you could allow for normal checks based solely on target and not location familiarity. This would mean that more fatigue might have to be risked, but it can be done. (this assumes that totally unfamiliar locations require fatigue saves even for basic direction, unlike familiar locations).

Anyway, Scrying makes this a bit more academic, since a succsessful Scrying could make the use of this power much easier, and anyone serious about finding people would be wise to learn it :)

Perhaps DC 15+Familiarity lets you pick whichever one you want? And sometimes, of course, the fast route and the wise route will be the same.


Your call, but the more I think about it, the more I am a fan of not knowing which result you get. I also like the idea of this power being able to be sensed by the target somehow unless Subtle Signature is used, which could of course reduce the chance (maybe an identical method that is used for Scrying?). I know that feat only applies to Second Sight, but in this case it could be applied to whatever save the target makes to detect it, if you decide to keep the Will save, ect.

About high-DC uses and the example you gave: yikes! That really makes it a powerful ability, but if the DCs are high enough, it couldn't hurt :)
Dork Elf
Bystander
Bystander
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: New Power: Find the Path

Postby aaronil » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:04 pm

Hey, looks like a great power! I definitely could see this getting a lot of use in play, you know, rescuing imprisoned djinni allies and such. ;)
I think an average of the familiarities of subject & location is one way to go that doesn't screw the player over, though it does mess with the rules a bit. Your other idea, to take whichever is worse seems OK to me as a GM too, but I'm sure a player would object. Afterall, if their closest friend in the entire world is taken to an unknown location, shouldn't the bond of friendship count?
I would also rule that "Find the Path" can be used on an Unfamiliar location (provided the person/item sought is at least Slightly Familiar). Treat Unfamiliar locations as +30 DC.

How does taking the average actually look in play?

Let's take Mr. X, a 1st level Adept whose power attribute (Intelligence) is +3, and the Supernatural Talent (+2 Scry & Find the Path). Mr. X's total Find the Path power is +9.

Mr. X is trying to find a close friend (+5) in an unfamiliar location (+30). The average (rounded down) is DC 17. Thus, Mr. X must roll an 8 in order to know which direction to travel. However attempting to find the most direct route (DC 22) is difficult, trying to find the most efficient route (DC 27) is exceedingly difficult, and trying to avoid all obstacles is just out of the question. This seems entirely appropriate for a 1st level True20 character.

Now, let's take Mr. Y, an 8th level Adept whose power attribute (Intelligence) is +4, and has the Supernatural Talent as above. His Find the Path power is +17.

Mr. Y is trying to learn the location of his party's archenemy. He uses a fatiguing Scry in an attempt to gain the Present familiarity with the location so he could then use Find the Path. However, after a couple seconds, his Scry is Warded. Mr. Y is now Slightly Familiar with the location. After he shakes off his fatigue, he attempts to Find the Path. Since he is only looking for the location, the base DC is 25 to find which direction is lies. This is as easy for Mr. Y as was Mr. X's task (he also must roll an 8 to succeed). Again, this seems entirely appropriate for an 8th level True20 character.

The Shadow wrote:This a power I've been toying around with. I'm not sure about the DC's.

FIND THE PATH

Fatiguing, Maintenance

This power shows the way to a specific subject.

For a DC of 0 + Familiarity, the adept learns the precise direction to the subject, which may be a person, place, or thing. (A person may make a Will save to resist.) If this is all that the adept desires, the use of the power is not fatiguing. Attempting anything more than this does risk fatigue, even if this level is all that is obtained.

If the roll is made by 5 or more, the adept instead is pointed along the most direct route to the subject. This route may involve danger, but it must be physically possible for the adept to follow.

If the roll is made by 10 or more, the adept is pointed to the most efficient route to the subject. This may take longer than the most direct route, but will be safer.

If the roll is made by 20 or more, the adept is guided around whatever dangers may infest the route.

The Narrator should make the roll secretly so the adept is not sure what level of finding has been attained. (Though the adept may restrict himself to the lowest level, as mentioned.)

Example: An adept seeks a kidnapped acquaintance (Familiarity +10), who the GM happens to know is held in a deep underground cavern.

If the adept reaches DC 10, the power indicates a direction more or less downward into the earth, with no indication of how far or how to get there.

DC 15 means the power tugs the adept to a nearby cave that ultimately leads to the friend's location. Unfortunately, a dragon makes its lair deep in the cave.

DC 20 means the power leads the adept to a safer entry to the Underdark.

DC 30 means the power warns the adepts of traps, tripwires, and ambushes along the chosen route. Not directly, with information, but by leading around them or the like.

------------------

See, I don't want to make it too easy to find really familiar objects, but I don't want it to be utterly impossible to find unfamiliar ones either. One idea I had was to take the familiarity of the subject or the familiarity of the location, whichever is worse?

Any suggestions?
aaronil
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:09 pm

Re: New Power: Find the Path

Postby The Shadow » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:00 pm

aaronil wrote:Hey, looks like a great power! I definitely could see this getting a lot of use in play, you know, rescuing imprisoned djinni allies and such. ;)


Actually I was thinking more in terms of "mysterious necklace hidden deep in the desert". ;) That ol' fifth cardinal direction to Jinnistan might make things difficult... (Honestly, though, it seems more like a hakima power.)

Good suggestion, you pretty much went the same direction I've been going with it.
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am

Postby The Shadow » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:24 am

I just noticed a somewhat cynical use of this power that I'm not at all sure I like. But I also don't see what can be done to stop it.

Namely, the situation where the adept doesn't really care about finding the subject - he just wants a way *out* of the location he's in!

Like, you fix on your own home. Extremely familiar, DC 0. You get the efficient path at DC *10*. You get the ultra-safe path at only DC 20. You follow the path just long enough to get out of the sticky situation you're in, then continue whatever you were doing.

In other news, I'm thinking of banning "places" as a possible subject. It has an odd feel to it, and it messes with the averaging. (This will also help somewhat with the above problem.)

Though that means al-Qadim characters can't figure out what direction to pray in. Darn. :)

EDIT: I'm also curious what this power does in the "hopeless" situation... where you're sealed in a small chamber of solid rock. No way out, and no scrolls to find and so on. Maybe it just gives up and falls back on the lowest level - merely pointing the direction to the subject?
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am

Postby aaronil » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:06 pm

Issue 1: Finding Your Way Out of Oz, Back to Kansas
Sometimes there isn't a safe path. I don't think this power creates something that couldn't feasibly exist. I mean, if you're in a hot air balloon that's about to crash, and you try to find your way back home to Kansas while in the air, it doesn't make much difference, cause you're going to crash anyhow! Once you are on the ground, however, or manage to repair the hot air balloon, then finding your way back to Kansas makes sense. As a GM I would never allow this power to be used in the way you suggested because it breaks the limits of what the power can do: This power operates spatially. Also remember you're risking fatigue to do this because you're going beyond the "which direction is it, Toto?"

Issue 2: The Inescapable Death Trap
This power isn't a get out of jail free card. It works spatially, but it does not manipulate possibility/fate in order to create extraordinary coincidences like a White Wolf Mage might. If there is a route out of the prison it will reveal it to you - such as a secret tunnel that was never completed. But it won't reveal cunning plans, like putting yourself in the dead man's bodybag, or stealing the guard's keys. Of course, you almost always can learn what direction a target is in, unless one of these circumstances comes up:
(a) The target is no longer in "ordinary reality"
(b) The target is dead or obliterated
(c) The target is unusual (a teleporter, a mind split between several bodies, invisibly present with you, etc)[/b]
aaronil
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:09 pm

Postby The Shadow » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:09 pm

aaronil wrote:Issue 1: Finding Your Way Out of Oz, Back to Kansas
Sometimes there isn't a safe path.


Granted. But then again, sometimes there is.

Say you're lost in "a maze of twisty little passages, all alike". :) It seems a little odd to let you thread your way out at DC 5 by fixing on your home. (Of course, it might lead you out of the maze *the wrong way*... ;) Not deeper into the cavern toward your goal, but back toward the surface.)

Issue 2: The Inescapable Death Trap
This power isn't a get out of jail free card. It works spatially, but it does not manipulate possibility/fate in order to create extraordinary coincidences like a White Wolf Mage might.


True. Though would such a power be feasible using True20, you think? (Golly. Would THAT be mindblowing re: the emails I've sent you recently, or what? :)
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am

Postby aaronil » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:10 am

I would clarify a new use for the power:

Find your way when lost: When you become lost you may make a Find the Path check (non-fatiguing) to retrace your steps the way you came in. The DC is determined by how lost you are and how difficult path-finding in the terrain is. Areas that are easy to navigate around are DC 10. Difficult areas, such as a windswept desert might by DC 20. Truly twisted caverns are DC 30. An environment which is magically enchanted or changes could have an even greater DC. If you succeed, you find your way out. Something significant must occur while orienteering yourself in order to make another power check; for example, you find the journal of a long-since dead adventurer.

You may even state that when you are lost you may not fix on familiar locations. Only once you have escaped being lost may you use this power normally.
aaronil
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:09 pm

Postby The Shadow » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:42 pm

Interesting... though "lost" can be a strangely ambiguous concept at times.
"All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

--The Shadow
User avatar
The Shadow
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:49 am


Return to True20 Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests