Feat question

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Feat question

Postby Melon-neko » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:03 am

Ugh, i couldn't think of an appropriate subject. So anyways, i just got the blue rose companion and they had feats for estates and commissions and such. Which is neat, but i have a slight quandry with it and i wanted to wax on about it and see what others thoughts are.

Basically, i feel feats should be something the characters does, not something the character has. An estate should be gained through roleplaying, not acquired at 7th lvl because you took a feat and thought it would be cool. Same with the Basic leadership feat, while it would be okay if it enhanced what you could do as a leader, i do not think you should have to take a feat to have followers. I assume they are feats because it is easier and to help balance out the benefits you gain from it.

I got to thinking, as i do too much probably, and i will probably overcomplicate things by making them skill checks or something. I don't know, just doesn't sit right with me as feats.

Any thoughts? (i know this isn't true 20 necessarilly, but this is my favorite forum to read) >.>
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Postby Ludanto » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:17 pm

Well, what do you do if your character concept starts out having and estate and followers at first level, or if you start characters at a higher level? It would be particularly useful there...

However, I can see how it might bother you since the "feats" are so external to the character. However, they are still resources that are available to the character. Does it bother you that characters can wake up one morning and suddenly know a new skill or power or combat technique? Generally not. It's assumed that it's something that the character has been working on or thinking about until he finally got it right. Of course the player may not have ever said anything of the sort. So, similarly, you can re-write "off-screen" history to include the steps needed to gain followers or an estate or whatever, or assume that the new feat isn't available until after the next period of downtime, where the hero gets the new thing. Or, if all of that completely stretches credibility, make the player RP various elements needed to get the new thing.

It can seem a little odd, but these kinds of feats represent the strong associations between a character and some other element. So instead of being the charming guy who's good with a whip, he's now the charming guy who's good with a whip who owns that big house on the hill.

Just some thoughts...
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Postby Melon-neko » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:03 pm

well, as far as starting out with an estate or follower, i think thats what background traits are good for. Which aren't part of true 20, but i quite like them. I have no problem with people sponteanously learning feats or even supernatural powers. I don't even need a retroactive reasoning, i have no problem with a character suddenly doing something because they felt they might be able to, or whatever.

However, if my players had been trappesing about in a duengeon and one got a manor, it would be a bit weird. I mostly don't like them as feats because it is not controlled enough, while i realized as a GM i can veto feats, i don't like to unless i specified it before hand. I recognized their use, i was just curious, i am not really looking for an argument for or against, just other peoples thoughts and/or alternatives...although i guess that means i am looking for arguments against, i really just like alternatives whether i use them or not :green:
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Postby Ludanto » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:20 pm

Well, above I covered a couple of ways it could be handled... For what it's worth, though, I'm sure that any player worth playing with would understand common sense elements like having to go do some legwork, either in game or out before taking, say, the Estate feat. You could likewise let them take it and then not be able to use it until they actually go through the process of aquire... acquire... getting it.

I fully understand your general feelings about feats that work that way. The World of Darkness (Vampire, etc) forums are rife with similar arguments. My general opinion is that if gaining the feat "feels wrong" then the player has to do whatever it takes to make it "feel right" before getting (or using) that feat.

And if it makes you feel better, just let the players know that some of the feats will require RP to attain. Then if they have questions about individual feats, you can tell them then without having to write out a list.

BTW, did you download the Companion? My FLGS said that it hadn't been released (on paper) yet.
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Postby Melon-neko » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:28 pm

Yeah. I am pondering about making leadership and estate things skill based checks, since i currently really like skill based things ^^

anyways, yes i did download the companion. It has something interesting stuff, mostly i like all the skill tricks and skill knacks and i didn't even bother reading the magic items ^_^
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Postby Ludanto » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:45 pm

Grr! I'm looking forward to the Companion, but I don't want to download it. I like packaging. It's what keeps me from pirating software :P
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Postby timemrick » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:36 pm

If it helps, think of each feat as a chunk of time and effort that a character has invested to acquire a new capability, whether it's a combat trick, a couple of skills, a supernatural power, a base of operations, or a loyal follower. In the case of an estate, followers, or extra wealth, that's time that could have been used to improve the character's own personal skills, but instead he chose to expend that effort to acquire something external but equally useful.
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Re: Feat question

Postby Stareyes » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:03 am

I came to True20 via BESM and liked a concept they used there -- 'Character Point Protection'. Basically all that was required to own anything in BESM is GM approval, though you could also put some of your character points into it. If you didn't have character point in it, the GM was free to take it away/damage it/steal it as part of a plot, etc. If you did invest character points in it, it was considered a part of your character (a signature weapon or vehicle, a secret lab, etc.) and the GM could only make it inavailable for a short time (maybe an adventure at max) without compensating you (getting the CP back or getting another toy of equal value). In True20, I would probably run it much the same way.

I actually prefer BESM's system to the Wealth bonus one (which I prefer to penny-counting).
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Postby Melon-neko » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:20 am

Ludanto wrote:Grr! I'm looking forward to the Companion, but I don't want to download it. I like packaging. It's what keeps me from pirating software :P


I download PDF's while i'm bored at work =)

Hi stareyes, i remember you from the goo boards.


So, here is a question. If you as a player spent a Feat on a house, and then it got burned down, would you think you should get your feat back? Or maybe have it replaced with some trait, or do you think its just part of owning a house, there's no home owner insurance in fantasy land ^^;;
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