Super Speed and Super Flight?

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Super Speed and Super Flight?

Postby Captain Claymore » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:53 am

Does your increased movement in SS also effect your Flight power?

I'm inclined to believe it does but want some input.
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Postby threshel » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:09 am

It doesn't say one way or the other in the book. I've been thinking about this as well (it affects several NPC's in my campaign). So far, I'm inclined to say that a player could choose which mode of movement the SS power applies to when the power is taken. I'm not sure of this, because then it would make certain concepts very hard to render in game terms, ie, Superman is supposed to have SS, and it definitely applies to all his movement abilities. I couldn't see it applying to Teleportation, though, so a "all movement powers" fiat may not be appropriate.

So a tentative "yes," with heavy "GM's approval" conditioning.

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this as well.

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Postby Gamskee » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:56 am

Perfectly logical to say that you can take it as an extra. However, I wonder if leaping should get a boost when taken as an extra of SS? Buying it seperately has no cost difference.
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Postby Captain Claymore » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:59 am

Gamskee wrote:Perfectly logical to say that you can take it as an extra. However, I wonder if leaping should get a boost when taken as an extra of SS? Buying it seperately has no cost difference.


Take what as an extra?
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Postby mgg » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:15 am

I think it is intended to increase ground speed only, since that is the only thing 'base speed' refers to. If you have SS10 and want 10 ranks of flight, buy 10 ranks of flight.

Note, even if you do apply SS to other movement forms, it is all still subject to power stacking.
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Postby Captain Claymore » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:37 am

mgg wrote:I think it is intended to increase ground speed only, since that is the only thing 'base speed' refers to. If you have SS10 and want 10 ranks of flight, buy 10 ranks of flight.

Note, even if you do apply SS to other movement forms, it is all still subject to power stacking.


Actually I wasn't thinking about taking flight as an extra. I was thinking that if I had two separate powers, Super Speed 10, Flight 10, would my super speed go towards my flight too? It could be viewed either way, I take it from the above that you think I would still need to take the Super Flight Stunt.
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Postby MusicFreq2002 » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:50 am

that makes a kind of sense but since its abusive i think that i'd keep the benefits seperate.

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Postby mgg » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:08 pm

I wouldn't add any movement to the flight. I would still require the super flight stunt. However I would allow the character to keep the initiative bonus, the dodge bonus, the reflex bonus and the time required to perform routine tasks.
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Postby Tallarn » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:46 am

I would say the whole point of the Super Flight power is to reflect the fact that, for example, Superman can fly fast but not necessarily run fast. It's not a perfect example, but it works well enough for game terms.
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Postby threshel » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:11 am

Tallarn wrote:...Superman can fly fast but not necessarily run fast.


Actually, he can run fast. I don't think that whether or not Supes has Super-speed is really debateable. He is routinely shown completing actions at superspeed, and moving at superspeed, flying or not. In fact, I believe that the term "superspeed" comes from the naming of Superman's powers (Superstrength, Supervision, Superhearing, Superspeed, etc.).

I think what is at the core of this is the question "Do movement effects grant 'base speed'?" How about the feat "Amphibious"?

For noncombat, Superflight is fine, but how do you model a same-PL Superman that flies as fast as the Flash runs in combat?

If you were gifted with Super-speed, why wouldn't it apply to every movement you make?

I'm not advocating (or at least, I'm trying not to advocate ;) ), but this is a real quandry to me, and I haven't reached a difinitive answer yet. I can't bring my conceptions in line with the way this seems to work mechanically.

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Postby Captain Claymore » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:20 am

I've since decided that although it may not make logical sense, I will separate the superspeeds by type for PP reasons. The power SUPER SPEED does not grant Super Flight - even if you have taken Flight as an extra on SS. It only effects your "base" ground movement sans any other powers. Same goes for Swimming, Tunneling, etc. It would of course be pointless to take both Super Speed and the Running power.

I do agree that you would still get the other bonuses (Ref, Init, free actions) of SS when flying etc. :D
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Postby Dinsdale » Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:52 am

OK then...I have a question for the masses as well. This may have been adressed already, but I'm new to the boards and haven't found it yet.

Would SS affect a power such as Leaping with the "super leaping" extra? According to the way the book reads...with a level 7 leaping, one could take a full round super leap action to jump 4480 feet...but it seems to read that that action would still happen at a sprint speed of 120 feet per round, being a base move of 30 ft per round. Would SS cut the time it would take a character to "land" down?
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Postby mgg » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:35 am

No, SS would have no effect on other movement powers. A super leap would take one round whether or not you have super speed.
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Postby Carnifex » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:41 am

mgg wrote:No, SS would have no effect on other movement powers. A super leap would take one round whether or not you have super speed.


which, if you obsess on physics, leads to some interesting effects. For example, in a 6 second leap, you rise for 3 seconds then fall. So you don't do any higher than 144.9 feet. (d=.5at^2)
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Postby Anthony » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:48 am

Carnifex wrote:
which, if you obsess on physics, leads to some interesting effects. For example, in a 6 second leap, you rise for 3 seconds then fall. So you don't do any higher than 144.9 feet. (d=.5at^2)


Of course, if you obsess on physics you just might be playing the wrong game...
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Postby mgg » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:49 am

What? A super power contradicts physics? What is the world coming to? :)
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Postby Strict31 » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:16 am

If you deconstruct the Super Speed power, you will ultimately come to the conclusion that it has a movement effect contained within the power. As a default, it applies to a land based movement effect. Theoretically, you could "swap" the land based Movement Effect for a Flight based Movement Effect. It would then apply to flight only. if you wanted to have it apply to land based movement as well, add a secondary Movement Effect and dub it "Land Based" or simply call it "Running". Add it as a Stunt or as an Extra, and your problem is solved.

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Postby Captain Claymore » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:22 am

Strict31 wrote:If you deconstruct the Super Speed power, you will ultimately come to the conclusion that it has a movement effect contained within the power. As a default, it applies to a land based movement effect. Theoretically, you could "swap" the land based Movement Effect for a Flight based Movement Effect. It would then apply to flight only. if you wanted to have it apply to land based movement as well, add a secondary Movement Effect and dub it "Land Based" or simply call it "Running". Add it as a Stunt or as an Extra, and your problem is solved.

Strictly Speaking


It would technically be a stunt in that case because it is already a movement based power. (Although I have noticed that not all powers follow that supposed rule.)
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Postby mgg » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:26 am

I could see adding flight as a stunt. That doesn't seem too much of a problem. Likewise for leap.
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Postby Strict31 » Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:01 pm

Technically and generally a Stunt. I only added in the possibility of an Extra in case someone comes up with a concept that allows his character to both fly and run at the same time. Don't ask me how, but someone might figure it out. And thus, I strive to include all possibilities while anticipating none.

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