BAB/BDB vs. Optional Rule - Who's Using What?

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BAB/BDB vs. Optional Rule - Who's Using What?

Postby slaughterj » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:14 pm

The default in MnM is that you buy BAB for 3pp/rank, and BDB for 2pp/rank, but there's the optional rule for BAB to be split into Armed, Unarmed, and Ranged, and to split BDB into Melee and Ranged. What I'm wondering is, of the campaigns being run out there, which rule is being used, the default or the optional?

(I'm trying to get a reasonably statistic from this, so if someone else from your gaming group posts the answer for your group, please don't duplicate it.)

For the Thursday night game I play in that Tesuji runs, and my own preference for GMing, is:

Optional Rule
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Postby DarkTouch » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:32 pm

For my game, I use a variant on the optional rule.
I'm a big psionics freak normally so I also split out Mental attack (with CHA) to hit.. and what I call Detachment (with WIS) for defense. The theory being that a trained mentalist creates a mental buffer between his ephemeral thoughs and core ego to make it harder for an attacking psychic to find the fleshy brain bits.

It costs the same though since standard BAB and BDB also encompass Mental attacks and defense.
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Postby Mucknuggle » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:33 pm

I use the default, but the optional makes more sense and now that I thinka bout it I'd like to switch, but then again I have a power gamer in the group that would just love to ditch 20 pp worth of BAB to get some new powers and feats. :cry:
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Postby slaughterj » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:35 pm

Mucknuggle wrote:I use the default, but the optional makes more sense and now that I thinka bout it I'd like to switch, but then again I have a power gamer in the group that would just love to ditch 20 pp worth of BAB to get some new powers and feats. :cry:


As a side note, if the characters and villains are all built using the optional rule, there's no issue, but I could see an issue arising if only the characters were so built.
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Postby Striker » Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:01 pm

I build all my characters with the standard rule. Mostly because it's easier to switch from that to the optional, then the other way around. I don't really have a preference as to method though. Both games I've run have used the standard rule.
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Postby Celtic Cowboy » Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:32 pm

I skip this optional rule. There are plenty of feats that allow minor adds to one type of combat or another to break up a static row of attack numbers.
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Postby palehorse » Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:33 pm

I just use it as-is to keep it simple.
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Postby AaronUnicorn » Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:44 pm

I also use the standard, rather than the optional rule. There are ways of making yourself better in one area or another by taking things such as attack focus.

I also just don't find that many cases in comics where someone is significantly different in their ability to fight at ranged versus close up, except where the difference in their statistics would already differentiate.

That and it seems like a really good way to min/max. Wolverine "slasher" types would save lots on their BAB, since they wouldn't need to put any points into BAB-Ranged.
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Postby whydirt » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:14 pm

For the most part, I use the standard rule. For my fantasy game, I allowed a wizardly type character to buy a magic BAB at 2 pts per rank that stacked with normal BAB.
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Postby Gamskee » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:34 pm

I go by the optional rule. As I'm used to point based systems where you can buy individual combat skills, I see nothing wrong with having three attack skills and two defense skills. It could become a bit cheesy, but there are few character types who can't suffer from this from time to time.

Bricks use objects to hit.
Sometimes Wolverine must use a sword as his enemy cannot die by another means.
Sometimes, your character gets nullified and needs a way to continue.

Anyone can find that they need to use a weapon, ranged or not, or that their weapons has broken/been taken.

Over all, I don't think it's power gaming, just another option to make characters a little more advanced.
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Re: BAB/BDB vs. Optional Rule - Who's Using What?

Postby DKeith2011 » Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:44 pm

slaughterj wrote:The default in MnM is that you buy BAB for 3pp/rank, and BDB for 2pp/rank, but there's the optional rule for BAB to be split into Armed, Unarmed, and Ranged, and to split BDB into Melee and Ranged. What I'm wondering is, of the campaigns being run out there, which rule is being used, the default or the optional?

(I'm trying to get a reasonably statistic from this, so if someone else from your gaming group posts the answer for your group, please don't duplicate it.)

For the Thursday night game I play in that Tesuji runs, and my own preference for GMing, is:

Optional Rule


I allow the use of that optional rule. But only if it makes sense for the character.

For example, a character in my game uses guns (gadgets) some of these guns include scopes represented by a few levels of ranged attack bonus that apply only to the gun.
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I use a modified version of the custom rules..

Postby haferka » Wed Jul 23, 2003 7:05 pm

http://people.tamu.edu/~haferka/rulezero.htm

Look specificly at the BaseAttack & Defence extras/flaws.
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Postby faenril » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:26 pm

I use the optional power rules for one of my player who has a Hight BAB and BDB when he is in his power amor (device flaw on BAB/BDB). I do not use the optional skill rule.
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Postby DarkTouch » Thu Jul 31, 2003 5:19 am

I watched DareDevil last night..
I really wouldn't want to do Bullseye without the optional rule in place...
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Postby The Fifth Wanderer » Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:59 am

I use a hybrid approach myself. They can either buy up their BAB/BDB or they can buy up the individual parts for 1pp/level.
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Postby slaughterj » Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:16 am

The Fifth Wanderer wrote:I use a hybrid approach myself. They can either buy up their BAB/BDB or they can buy up the individual parts for 1pp/level.


Heh, to me, that's the optional rule :) Anyone under the optional rule could simply buy up everything under BAB too :)
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Postby AaronUnicorn » Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:54 am

DarkTouch wrote:I watched DareDevil last night..
I really wouldn't want to do Bullseye without the optional rule in place...


Why not? Daredevil, very arugably, has a higher Dex than Str. That, combined with Attack Focus (ranged) should show enough of a difference in his Melee Attack as opposed to his ranged attack.

Assuming Str 14, Dex 20, BAB 6, Attack Focus Ranged, we get a Melee Attack of +8, and a Ranged Attack of +12.

And Bullseye isn't a slouch in hand-to-hand combat, so that seems reasonable to me.
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Postby palehorse » Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:33 am

Sounds about right to me, too, Aaron.

Bullseye would have very comparable stats; toss Throwing Mastery into the mix and he can toss a playing card for +5 damage, or as lethal as a heavy pistol. More than sufficient for doing a mid-low PL level game (say 6 to 8), which is about where DD and his rogues gallery should be IMO.
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Postby AaronUnicorn » Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:40 am

palehorse wrote:More than sufficient for doing a mid-low PL level game (say 6 to 8),


Heh. The 8) Combination of 8 and ) strikes again!
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Postby Tesuji » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:27 am

AaronUnicorn wrote:Why not? Daredevil, very arugably, has a higher Dex than Str. That, combined with Attack Focus (ranged) should show enough of a difference in his Melee Attack as opposed to his ranged attack.

Assuming Str 14, Dex 20, BAB 6, Attack Focus Ranged, we get a Melee Attack of +8, and a Ranged Attack of +12.

And Bullseye isn't a slouch in hand-to-hand combat, so that seems reasonable to me.


To me i wouldn't be looking for a 20 dexterity for bullseye. his special ability is that he never misses, not that he is a world class gymnast and dancer. :-)

Thats why i would prefer a dex of around 16 say, strength in the 12-14, and babs of +9-10 ranged and around +4-6 for melee and unarmed. The feats such as point blank shot work in well. Book not in front of me but isn't attack focus still one ATTACK not a group of attacks? Also i would toss in some of the combat arts feats like accurate attack to allow for "aiming" when its a difficult shot and a variety of MA fighting.

but thats just me. I am much happier splitting up BAB/BDB to allow a character to directly and simply differentiate his ranged attack skill, from his boxing skill, from his skill with a three-section staff than to expect him to jack up his dex (and at the same time his tumbling and hide and his initiative and his defense) and lowdown his strength (and all it entails) because i see boxing, firearms and sai as all forged-in-steel-linked-chain skills and mandate they be bought in tandem.

YMMV
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