Neo's Marvel Conversions (updated 7/31/03)

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MSH Conversion guidlelines

Postby Neo » Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:45 am

Okay

the system I use for converting MSH (FASERIP) characters to M&M (D20 ish) is as follows

The following statistics in MSH are equivelant of the following:
Fighting = Attack bonus
Agility = Dexterity & Defence bonus
Strength = same
Endurance = Constitution
Reason = Intelligence
Intuition = Charisma
Psyche = Wisdom

Also all characters are considered to have a base defence of +1 regardless of any Dex or defence bonus may normally grant them. (i.e Forbush man has +3 Defence from Dexterity, and also what would convert to +6 from the converted Dex from MSH giving us +9, we then add the +1 base, meaning his Base Defence bonus would cost 14pp, which is the 6+1 =7. giving him a final base Defence of 20/17).

The following Stat ranges fall within each of the MSH ranks (as ascertaine vis the Judges Books tables for what each rank represents)
STRENGTH
Feeble (FB) = 1-9
Poor (PR) = 10-11
Typical (TY) = 12-15
Good (GD) = 16-19
Excellent (EX) = 20 (Maximum Human potential)
Remarkable (RM) = Super +1 - +4
Incredible (IN) = Super +5 - +8
Amazing (AM) = Super +9 - +12
Monsterous (MN) = Super +13 - +15
Unearthly (UN) = Super +16 upwards

DEXTERITY
Feeble (FB) = 1-7
Poor (PR) = 8-9
Typical (TY) = 10-11
Good (GD) = 12-13
Excellent (EX) = 14 - 15
Remarkable (RM) = 16 - 17
Incredible (IN) = 18 - 19
Amazing (AM) = 20 (Maximum Human potential)
Monsterous (MN) = Super +1 - +5
Unearthly (UN) = Super +6 upwards

CONSTITUTION
Feeble (FB) = 1-7
Poor (PR) = 8-9
Typical (TY) = 10-11
Good (GD) = 12-15
Excellent (EX) = 16 - 18
Remarkable (RM) = 19 - 20 (Maximum Human potential)
Incredible (IN) = Super +1 - +5
Amazing (AM) = Super +6 - +10
Monsterous (MN) = Super +11 - +15
Unearthly (UN) = Super +16 upwards

INTELLIGENCE
Feeble (FB) = 1-9
Poor (PR) = 10-11
Typical (TY) = 12-14
Good (GD) = 15-17
Excellent (EX) = 18 - 19
Remarkable (RM) = 20 (Maximum Human potential)
Incredible (IN) = Super +1 - +5
Amazing (AM) = Super +6 - +10
Monsterous (MN) = Super +11 - +15
Unearthly (UN) = Super +16 upwards

WISDOM
Feeble (FB) = 1-7
Poor (PR) = 8-9
Typical (TY) = 10-11
Good (GD) = 12-15
Excellent (EX) = 16 - 19
Remarkable (RM) = 20 (Maximum Human potential)
Incredible (IN) = Super +1 - +5
Amazing (AM) = Super +6 - +10
Monsterous (MN) = Super +11 - +15
Unearthly (UN) = Super +16 upwards

CHARISMA
Feeble (FB) = 1-7
Poor (PR) = 8-9
Typical (TY) = 10-11
Good (GD) = 12-13
Excellent (EX) = 14 - 16
Remarkable (RM) = 17 - 19
Incredible (IN) = 20 (Maximum Human potential)
Amazing (AM) = Super +1 - +5
Monsterous (MN) = Super +6 - +10
Unearthly (UN) = Super +11 upwards

ATTACK BONUS (from Fighting)
Feeble (FB) = +1
Poor (PR) = +2
Typical (TY) = +3
Good (GD) = +4
Excellent (EX) = +5
Remarkable (RM) = +6
Incredible (IN) = +7
Amazing (AM) = +8
Monsterous (MN) = +9
Unearthly (UN) = +10 upwards

DEFENCE BONUS (from Agility) "Remember always Base +1 + below"
Feeble (FB) = +1
Poor (PR) = +2
Typical (TY) = +3
Good (GD) = +4
Excellent (EX) = +5
Remarkable (RM) = +6
Incredible (IN) = +7
Amazing (AM) = +8
Monsterous (MN) = +9
Unearthly (UN) = +10 upwards

POWERS (What powers, extras, flaws etc.. is pretty obvious with most MSH characters as they are described in power stunts etc..)
Feeble (FB) = +1 - +2
Poor (PR) = +3 - +4
Typical (TY) = +5 - +6
Good (GD) = +7 - +8
Excellent (EX) = +9 - +10
Remarkable (RM) = +11 - +12
Incredible (IN) = +13 - +14
Amazing (AM) = +15 - +16
Monsterous (MN) = +17 - +18
Unearthly (UN) = +19 - +20 upwards
Powers are a special case and of all the conversion are the least accurate for purposes of easy conversion, so apply common sense and lower or reduce the rank as necessary to fit your view of its overall power level

For those of you using the D20 Modern Wealth system, you can also use the following to determine resources to Wealth bonus (everyone starts with 2d4 remember).
Feeble (FB) = +0
Poor (PR) = +1 - +4
Typical (TY) = +5 - +7
Good (GD) = +8 - +10
Excellent (EX) = +11 - +12
Remarkable (RM) = +13 - +15
Incredible (IN) = +16 - +20
Amazing (AM) = +21 - +30
Monsterous (MN) = +31 - +50
Unearthly (UN) +51 upwards

TALENTS
no conversion necessary, but these provide a pretty good idea of some basic skills and feats to include for the character being converted

Then all you do is total up the cost of all you have chosen, round up or down as preferred to the nearest power level and voila!
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Postby Tickkid » Sat Feb 08, 2003 6:42 am

Ah yes, the Gamer's Handbook to the Marvel Universe. I was going to sit down on the boring days and start writing characters up from there from beginning to end, (thought not updating them at all to their more modern versions, cause well in most cases that is the way I like them anyway.) This conversion info that you posted will help in honey bunches of oats in taking away the most mundane portions of that process. Though I will still have to flavor for taste, and and compare and contrast, but that leaves a fine starting point. I can't decide if I want to work on that first, or go with converting major villians from Champions/Heroes Unlimited/Blood of Heroes/and Silver Age Sentinels just so I can have a nice, dare I say, posse of villians to irritate the earth with.

Anyhow the main jist of this message was thanks for posting the conversion stuff, gives me more time to make jello.
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Postby Dr Archeville » Sat Feb 08, 2003 6:49 am

niiiiice.... though shouldn't Intuition also figure into Wisdom? I mean, the Player's book says Intuition reflects "wisdom, wits, common sense, and battle saavy," while Psyche represents "willpower or force of will."

Maybe have MSH Intuition correspond to M&M Wisdom, and MSH Psyche correspond to Will saving throw?

Charisma's always been a bear to try and convert to... maybe use the MSH Psyche & Popularity scores?

Also, do you have access to the Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game? They use a scale of 1-30 to ranks abilities & powers, and at first glance seems to 'synch' well with M&M.
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Postby Neo » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:05 am

Dr Archeville wrote:niiiiice.... though shouldn't Intuition also figure into Wisdom? I mean, the Player's book says Intuition reflects "wisdom, wits, common sense, and battle saavy," while Psyche represents "willpower or force of will."


I decided to use Psyche, because in MSH Intuition is also described as covering personality, and as Psyche is more about strength of mind (Wisdom related) and nothing personality or appearance related, it made more sense to have Psyche as Wisdom and Intuition as Charisma, though you could if you felt it necessary switch Intuition and Psyche with some conversion if you felt that level of statistic was more approrpiately represented that way round for your conversion.

Charisma's always been a bear to try and convert to... maybe use the MSH Psyche & Popularity scores?


popularity was considered but when you consider most of them are in the minuses in MSH you would rarely get anyone with a Charisma :D popularity works best as an indicator of whether or not the Fame/Infamy feat is warrunted I felt as opposed to the individuals personality or appearance.

Also, do you have access to the Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game? They use a scale of 1-30 to ranks abilities & powers, and at first glance seems to 'synch' well with M&M.


I have the basic and advanced sets, the city campaign (set in New York), the X-men boxed, the Doctor Doom boxed, all the marvel handbooks A-Z and a bunch of separate books (Ultimate powers, magic supplement etc...) I went through them all for inspiration and consideration before working my system for conversions.

The only levels I didn't want to cover really was Shift X,Y,Z and the Celestial "class 1000 etc.." levels and beyond as these things kinda extend way beyond most easily chartable limits in a level (albeit power level) type system. From a GM's perspective those kind of level beings work better when you just know if they can or cannot use something as opposed to applying a specific bonus. So there won't be any conversions of Death, or Eternity, Chaos, or the Celestials etc any time soon :D
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Postby Neo » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:10 am

Tickkid wrote:Anyhow the main jist of this message was thanks for posting the conversion stuff, gives me more time to make jello.


you can never have enough Jello ;) :P :D :lol:
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Postby Dr Archeville » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:52 am

Well, for negative Popularity (possessed by characters widely-known but widely-disliked/feared), justnuse the absolute value of the number. Which is how you can show Dr. Doom (Popularity -40) to be more charismatic than Spider-Man (Popularity 30). Though the Fame/Infamy thing you mention is good...

Besides, with Intuition = Charisma, that makes Wolverine & Daredevil (both with Intuition Monstrous/75) more charismatic than Professor X (Am/50 Intuition), Captain America (In/40 Intuition), and good ol' Spidey (Rm/30 Intuition)...

Heh, I think you've got slighlty more MSH RPG stuff than I do :P The MSH Adventure Game, while having a horrid system (IMHO -- I just don't like the SAGA/card-based system used in it), was very good in both the sheer number of characters covered & in the updates area (updated character backgrounds and such).
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Postby Neo » Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:04 am

Dr Archeville wrote:Besides, with Intuition = Charisma, that makes Wolverine & Daredevil (both with Intuition Monstrous/75) more charismatic than Professor X (Am/50 Intuition), Captain America (In/40 Intuition), and good ol' Spidey (Rm/30 Intuition)...


As I say you can change it around for those you feel it is necessary with but generally it makes little impact on the overall conversion with the vast majority of hero/villains

Heh, I think you've got slighlty more MSH RPG stuff than I do :P The MSH Adventure Game, while having a horrid system (IMHO -- I just don't like the SAGA/card-based system used in it), was very good in both the sheer number of characters covered & in the updates area (updated character backgrounds and such).


SAGA <shudder> :( nuff said...
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Hey Neo

Postby Magnus » Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:40 am

It worked...I don't know why I didn't think of it before.

I worked on a playable Magneto version for when and if I play M&M (a PL10).

I started working on Rogue last night.

So far I have her at PL15.

I may post it soon...

later
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Postby BeZurKur » Sat Feb 08, 2003 5:01 pm

mmmm.... Jello.....

Thanks for the Notes, Neo.
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Postby Neo » Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:02 am

BeZurKur wrote:mmmm.... Jello.....

Thanks for the Notes, Neo.


No Worries BeZurKur

I should have Doctor Doom and Green Goblin up shortly
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Postby Dr Archeville » Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:00 pm

Excellent!

One more question -- how do you determine whether or not someone gets one of the Amazing Save powers, and at what level? I mean, shouldn't Professor Xavier have a high Will save, to reflect not just his Wisdom but also his years of telepathic practice & discipline? What about Wolverine -- yes, he's got a superhumanly-high Constitution, but he doesn't have a superhuman amount of hit points (though his regeneration may make it look that way) -- shouldn't he have high Amazing Save/Fortitude?
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Postby Neo » Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:25 pm

Dr Archeville wrote:Excellent!

One more question -- how do you determine whether or not someone gets one of the Amazing Save powers, and at what level? I mean, shouldn't Professor Xavier have a high Will save, to reflect not just his Wisdom but also his years of telepathic practice & discipline? What about Wolverine -- yes, he's got a superhumanly-high Constitution, but he doesn't have a superhuman amount of hit points (though his regeneration may make it look that way) -- shouldn't he have high Amazing Save/Fortitude?


You just answered your own question :)

Basically whenever it makes more sense that someone would get an Amazing save as opposed to a Super statistic, then that is what I give them. As for "at what level" well the easiest way to determine it is by using either the most applicable statistic or power and then consider its rank as if it was a power in it's own right. So if you decided to give Proff X the Amazing save Will, then consider either his Telepathy or Wisdom the determining factor (or if both apply like this then you can try the average of the two) and then see what the rank is (remember in MSH all ranks had a number range, so by determining an average you can work out what rank it will fall in) and see what range of + in a power that rank would give. So if it was Amazing, then the "Amazing" Will save would be at +15-16. (reduced as necessary if making as a lower PL character by intention... me I convert them as they are, and let thier PL's speak for themselves)
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Postby Dr Archeville » Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:01 pm

ZA! Me am smart!!! :green:

*does a lil' jig*
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Postby Dr Archeville » Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:34 pm

May I suggest somethin', Neo?

MSH RPG Material Strengths -- M&M Hardness
Fb/2 -- 0-2 -- Bone, Cloth, Glass, Paper
Pr/4 -- 3-4 -- Normal Plastics, Wood
Ty/6 -- 5-6 -- Ice, Rubber, Soft Metals (brass, copper, gold)
Gd/10 -- 7-8 -- Aluminum, Brick, High-Strength Plastics
Ex/20 -- 9-10 -- Bullet-Proof Glass, Concrete, Iron
Rm/30 -- 11-12 -- Reinforced Concrete, Steel
In/40 -- 13-14 -- Solid Stone, Titanium Alloy, Vibranium, Volcanic Rock
Am/50 -- 15-16 -- Gemstones, Granite, Osmium Steel, Titanium Steel
Mn/75 -- 17-18 -- Diamond, Super-Heavy Alloys
Un/100 -- 19-20 -- Adamantium Steel, Meteoric Iron

Za?

( FYI, Adamantium Steel is a.k.a. Secondary Adamantium, and is not the same stuff bonded to Wolverine's bones -- that's True Adamantium, and is hard/tough enough to withstand nuclear bombs... which I'm thinking do more than 20d6 damage ;) )

Also, for MSH Talents -- M&M Feats:
Acrobatics = Dodge & Evasion, plus ranks in Balance, Jump, and Tumble
Martial Arts B = Attack Focus: Unarmed Strikes
Martial Arts C = Improved Grapple
Martial Arts E = Improved Initiative
Resist Domination = Indomitable Will
Wrestling = Improved Pin
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Postby Neo » Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:37 am

May I suggest somethin', Neo?

MSH RPG Material Strengths -- M&M Hardness
Fb/2 -- 0-2 -- Bone, Cloth, Glass, Paper
Pr/4 -- 3-4 -- Normal Plastics, Wood
Ty/6 -- 5-6 -- Ice, Rubber, Soft Metals (brass, copper, gold)
Gd/10 -- 7-8 -- Aluminum, Brick, High-Strength Plastics
Ex/20 -- 9-10 -- Bullet-Proof Glass, Concrete, Iron
Rm/30 -- 11-12 -- Reinforced Concrete, Steel
In/40 -- 13-14 -- Solid Stone, Titanium Alloy, Vibranium, Volcanic Rock
Am/50 -- 15-16 -- Gemstones, Granite, Osmium Steel, Titanium Steel
Mn/75 -- 17-18 -- Diamond, Super-Heavy Alloys
Un/100 -- 19-20 -- Adamantium Steel, Meteoric Iron

Za?


Okay looks fine, although normal Steel is listed in M&M as being Hardness 15, though considering the variety of steel alloys Its certainly feasible the way you have it listed. nice job!

Also, for MSH Talents -- M&M Feats:
Acrobatics = Dodge & Evasion, plus ranks in Balance, Jump, and Tumble
Martial Arts B = Attack Focus: Unarmed Strikes
Martial Arts C = Improved Grapple
Martial Arts E = Improved Initiative
Resist Domination = Indomitable Will
Wrestling = Improved Pin


Acrobatics could be just a skill focus - Acrobatics maybe? though Dodge or Evasion are also certainly plausible.
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Postby BeZurKur » Sun Feb 16, 2003 10:30 am

Before Neo posted his conversion notes, I drew up some rough notes myself as well. I still intend on converting some characters using both methods and seeing how each turn out. Anyhow, I noticed some similarities to Dr Archeville material table. Here it is, just as an excercise. The values are given in modifiers for abilities, or simply ranks for powers (not including super abilities.)

Fb/2 -- -5 to -4
Pr/4 -- -3 to -1
Ty/6 -- 0 to 1
Gd/10 -- 2 to 3
Ex/20 -- 4 to 6
Rm/30 -- 7 to 9
In/40 -- 10 to 12
Am/50 -- 13 to 15
Mn/75 -- 16 to 18
Un/100 -- 19+
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Doctor Doom

Postby Neo » Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:15 pm

Hiya folks

Doctor Victor Von Doom (PL 30) the Monarch of Latveria and sometime foe of the Fantastic Four

http://www.neo-innovation.com/Supers_Files/mm_doctor_doom.pdf

Enjoy!

(Edited based on Feedback, now has other powers armour has displayed, and addition of Gadgets, which was accidentally missed off the first time)
Last edited by Neo on Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dr Archeville » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:37 am

"Your work pleases Doom..." ;)

One tiny quibble, though -- his Possession/Mind Transfer isn't mystical, it's a psionic trick he 'learned' from a group of aliens (the Ovoids, I believe). He's also got some gadgets that can do the same.

Also, his Armor gives him Super-Senses (Infravision, Optical Scanners allowing him to focus in on things up to 1 mile away, and Parabolic Ear Amplifiers allow him to detect whispers across a crowded room, and unusual frequencies within the audible range for humans). His Armor's also been shown to be able to absorb solar and heat energy, to Boost his other systems.

Come to think of it, with all the various widgets & add-ons to his Armor he's shown over the years, the Gadgets power in his Armor wouldn't be out of the question, I'd think...

( can you guess that he's one of my faves? :P )
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Postby Neo » Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:50 am

Dr Archeville wrote:"Your work pleases Doom..." ;)

One tiny quibble, though -- his Possession/Mind Transfer isn't mystical, it's a psionic trick he 'learned' from a group of aliens (the Ovoids, I believe). He's also got some gadgets that can do the same.

Also, his Armor gives him Super-Senses (Infravision, Optical Scanners allowing him to focus in on things up to 1 mile away, and Parabolic Ear Amplifiers allow him to detect whispers across a crowded room, and unusual frequencies within the audible range for humans). His Armor's also been shown to be able to absorb solar and heat energy, to Boost his other systems.

Come to think of it, with all the various widgets & add-ons to his Armor he's shown over the years, the Gadgets power in his Armor wouldn't be out of the question, I'd think...

( can you guess that he's one of my faves? :P )


hehe grrr at myself here I actually have gadgets down for him, it is part of his PL26 cost as he has it at +20 but i missed it off the write up.. DOH!

I'll correct that :lol:
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Postby Neo » Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:43 am

Okay

Doctor Doom has now been updated, he now has the Gadget power, which i missed off the first time :S And also thanks to feedback from Dr Archeville now has Possession as a Psionic ability (Telekinesis taking its place as a spell), and his Armour has the ability to Absorb solar/light energy to boost any of his armours other functions. Also his armour grants him Super senses and he has 3 new feats tied to the senses to also reflect its capability.

As a result Doctor Dooms PL is now 30.
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Postby Dr Archeville » Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:37 am

"Doom is pleased even more..." ;)
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Malice

Postby Neo » Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:16 pm

Hiya Folks

A PDF of Malice (PL 19) the Possessing energy being and leader of the Marauders, Malice is an Assassin for Mr Sinister. Has been uploaded to the Supers page for Download and use with Mutants and Masterminds!

http://www.neo-innovation.com/Supers_Files/mm_malice.pdf

Enjoy!
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Green Goblin

Postby Neo » Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:37 pm

Hiya Folks!

A PDF of the Green Goblin (PL 18 ) the insane criminal identity of industrialist and inventor Norman Osborn, president of Osborn Industries, and foe of Spiderman has been uploaded to the Supers page for download for use with M&M.

http://www.neo-innovation.com/Supers_Files/mm_green_goblin.pdf

Enjoy!
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Postby Strand0 » Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:55 pm

What a bout the pumkin bombs, razor bats, and spark-shooter gloves. whine, pout, complain* :)
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Postby Neo » Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:57 pm

Strand0 wrote:What a bout the pumkin bomb, razor bats, and spark-shooter gloves. :)


They are all there, check out Devices on the second page.
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