New Wealth Holdings

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New Wealth Holdings

Postby Brudewollen » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:53 pm

I came up with three ideas for some new Wealth Holdings. Two of these nearly became options for my players (the Defrocked Maester and Begging Brother options). Let me know what you thik:

Begging Brother or Defrocked Septon

A begging brother has made his home in your domain from which he might make his rounds in the region. Alternately, you might have a defrocked Septon or Septa, one whose crimes or venality caused the Faith to remove them from their ranks, but who still retains enough religious piety to be an adviser in matters of religion.

Requirement: None

Investment: 5
Time: 1d6 Months


Gain +1 bonus on House Fortunes rolls. In addition, your family acquires the counsel of a friendly defrocked Septon/Septa or Begging Brother who spend much of his time in your domain from which he makes his occasional circuit of other villages in the region. This character can be a player character or a narrator character.


Defrocked Maester or Former Acolyte of the Citadel

You have taken a defrocked Maester or a Former Acolyte of the Citadel into your household employ.

Requirement: None

Investment: 5
Time: 1d6 Months


Gain +1 bonus on House Fortunes rolls. In addition, your family acquires the service of either a defrocked Maester or a former Acolyte of the Citadel, one who has only partially completed his training as a Maester. This character can be a player character or a narrator character.


Drydock

You have a drydock for the purpose of building ships.

Requirement: Coastline or Major River, Port

Investment: 15
Time: 3d6 Months


Whenever your House Fortune would increase your Wealth resource, the Drydock increases it further by +1 due to funds earned for building ships. Also, the cost of all Warship units is reduced to only 4 Power.
Last edited by Brudewollen on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Iron Legs » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:41 am

Good ideas. But if someone's asiles a Church's renegade, and next he wants to have a Sept, perhaps he need to expulse the defrocked clerk and amend peace with the faith.
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Postby Brudewollen » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 am

Yeah, probably. The way that would work is you simply have to buy a Sept and you lose whatever bonus you get if it's for a defrocked Septon. If it's for a begging brother, I'm not sure. I think you probably lose it too because a Septon sort of replaces the begging brother, who then probably just go off to minister to the small folk more than commiserate with lords and ladies.
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Postby GCWKovacs » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:58 am

For the Maester, Dechained or Unchained is probably a more accurate than Defrocked.
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Postby Brudewollen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:16 am

GCWKovacs wrote:For the Maester, Dechained or Unchained is probably a more accurate than Defrocked.

I'm pretty sure that Qyburn was described specifically as "defrocked" in the books, though I do like the term "dechained."
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Postby Aran MacFiona » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:57 pm

Iron Legs wrote:Good ideas. But if someone's asiles a Church's renegade, and next he wants to have a Sept, perhaps he need to expulse the defrocked clerk and amend peace with the faith.


Why ? If the defrocked septon doesn't have any religious activities, there is no reasons why a true septon would refuse to be in charge of a Sept. especially if the lord wanting the Sept bribes him. Not all septons have to be a fundamentalist narrow-minded asshole.
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Postby Iron Legs » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:46 pm

If a sept is expulsed, that's probably becouse a) is in sin b) he is an heretic of some sort or c) has been excomulgated or similar. If you are accepting in your house such a man, normaly the faith wouldn't look you with good eyes.
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Postby Iron Legs » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:03 pm

Talking about new wealth holdings... How about a brothel?

Littlefinger said they are a good investment. And also Tyrion made good money with the midget penny.

Probably having one will help with the Streetwise especiality. People always talk a lot in that places.
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Postby Aran MacFiona » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:18 pm

Iron Legs wrote:If a sept is expulsed, that's probably becouse a) is in sin b) he is an heretic of some sort or c) has been excomulgated or similar. If you are accepting in your house such a man, normaly the faith wouldn't look you with good eyes.


The Seven IS NOT the catholic church. There is no such thing as the Holy Inquisition in charge of tracking heretics. In fact in the books we have no indication the Faith has a Dogma. And there no heretics too. But we have lots of example of it being very tolerant toward other religions like the worship of trees or even R'hlor. The Faith has no real political power too after Maeglor (I think it was him) disbanded its military branch. Though it might change after AFfC, this part of the story has yet to be written.
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Postby Iron Legs » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:58 am

Even before the Inquisition, the Catholic Church excomulgated people and punished heretics.

We are talking about expulsed septons, so is logical to think the Faith doesn't like them.
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Postby Brudewollen » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:08 pm

Talking about new wealth holdings... How about a brothel?

Funny you say that. My PCs decided to make their Small Town a sort of Sin Capital for the Southern region of The Reach. They bought a "Market" with their Wealth Holdings, but decided it was more of a flesh and gambling market, so all they really have there are gambling halls and brothels. I suppose a less expensive single brothel holding is possible, but for the sake of our game we just used the same rules as the Market and tweaked what that meant exactly.

Aran MacFiona wrote:The Seven IS NOT the catholic church. There is no such thing as the Holy Inquisition in charge of tracking heretics. In fact in the books we have no indication the Faith has a Dogma. And there no heretics too.

Actually, the way things are being run by the Faith after the most recent High Septon came to power, I think things like Inquisitions might well be on the way back. They are currently torturing one of the Kettleblacks for his sins, getting him to confess and have gone so far as to arrest both Queens of the Realm for THEIR sins. Yeah, there is a dogma to the Faith of the Seven and there is most definitely a new Inquisition brewing under him.

There's also the militant warrior orders, which the new High Septon got Cersei to allow to be re-established. So, it looks like militant, dogmatic inquisitions FTW!
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Defrocked Septon

Postby ceranko » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:49 pm

A disgraced Septon could still wander around as a begging brother, or friar wandering and taking donations for sermons. Maybe he's a total scumbag and sells pardons for sins. Called indulgences, like the catholic church. Or maybe he asks people to give him money to pray to the seven for them. I can see a con artist doing all kinds of mischief. I would play him up have him carry a shrine and have little chess pieces of the seven in a bag, maybe even tell others they were made from the bones of the Seven themselves! Passed down from generation to generation. Or maybe he has his own view of the Sept and is writing abominations in his own "Holy" Book. Making himself out to be a prophet. IE Charles Manson type! This would be cool for an adventure. Hes a cult leader taking noble girls into his Sept. He began by Breaking a noblewoman out of her Monastery and teaming up with her and the rest of the women in the monastery. They killed the Matron Septa and have moved on to a lonely road deep in the forest where they have made their own Sept, and Kill members of the real sept faith when they come in to this strange and unknown Sept! They worship the stranger and view him as the true single god with many aspects. But Death is his favored face!

Yeah Baby!
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Paedrig » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:31 am

Annother Idea for a wealth Holding would be a [b]Horse Stud[/b]

Cost: 10 Wealth Points
Conditions: Need Terrain: Hills or Plains and Feature: Grassland
Benefits: Like Mine
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Re:

Postby Paulavamp » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:49 pm

Iron Legs wrote:Even before the Inquisition, the Catholic Church excomulgated people and punished heretics.

We are talking about expulsed septons, so is logical to think the Faith doesn't like them.

Not necressy the Church allow minor different of belief. Inquisition and the crusade luanch against sourthern france did more harm than good that why many king didnot want than crusade against apart of they nation.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Paulavamp » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:53 pm

What about mines like coal,iron,copper,tin,zince,silver,gold and platinium mines that can be started in hills and mountrain and in river for gold and platinium. Even than lead mine can earm good money and some lead ores have silver ore or silver metal in then.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Paedrig » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:06 am

Hmm..i think all this types are mostly summed together with the "normal" Wealth-Holding "Mine". A formidable Holding, by the way. (i mean +5 for House Fortune Rolls...).
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Pytorb » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:19 pm

Here's a list I've been working on. I will have to add the Brothel and Gambling Den! It is also interesting that I added a Shipwright instead of going for a Drydock but was basically trying to do the same thing...

Population Holdings
Community land features are purchased using a House's Land and Population Resources, 50% from each. In addition a community holding can only be bought if the Population Resource is higher than the cost of the community holding. For example, to buy a small town (cost 20) the House's Population Resource has to be at least 20 and it would cost the House 10 Population and 10 Land.

New and updated(*) Wealth Holdings

Artisan*
Gain a +2 to House Fortune rolls as one of the options not a +1.

Port*
Gain a +3 to House Fortune rolls not a +5 and adds +1D3 to Wealth Resource if a Marketplace is present not +1D6.

Mine*
Gain a +3 to House Fortune rolls not +5

Guilds*
Gain a +1 to House Fortune Rolls and whenever the House's Law Resource increases due to a House Fortune roll it increases by an additional +1.

Lighthouse
Requirement: Coast or Island
Investment: 5
Time: 1D6 Months
The negative modifier from winter is reduced by 3 as your fisherman can always find their way back to shore. In addition your Trading District can operate in winter.

Lumber
Requirement: Heavy Woods
Investment: 10
Time: 2D6 Months
Gain a +3 to House Fortune Rolls

Arable
Requirement: Grassland or River
Investment: 10
Time: 2D6 Months
Gain a +3 to House Fortune Rolls

Vineyards
Requirement Hills and River, can only beg taken in The Reach (south of Highgarden only) or Dorne
Investment: 10
Time: 10D6 Months
Gain a +3 to House Fortune Rolls

Quarry
Requirement: Hills
Investment: 10
Time: 12+2D6 Months
Gain a +1 to House Fortune rolls and +1 to the defence rating of Defence Holdings and the cover bonus of Communities due to the extra stone available to reinforce the Walls.

Granaries
Requirement: Hall or larger defensive structure
Investment: 5
Time: 4D6 Months
During winter the House does not have a negative modifier to House Fortune rolls from its Population Resource.

Smith (Artisan)
Requirement: Hall or larger defensive structure
Investment: 10
Time: 1D6 Months
Gain a +1 to House Fortune rolls AND all weapons and armour of house power holdings, except Mercenaries, Peasant Levies and Criminals, count as Castle Forged (+1 to result of Fighting tests for the weapons, +1 to AR for the armour)

Shipwight (Artisan)
Investment: 10
Time: 12+2D6 Months
Requirement: Hall or larger defensive structure, Port, Lumber
Gain a +1 to House Fortune rolls AND all Warships start off at AR7 instead of AR5

Bowyer & Fletcher (Artisan)
Investment: 10
Requirement: Hall or larger defensive structure
Time: 1D6 Months
Gain a +1 to House Fortune rolls AND all bows and crossbows of house power holdings, except Mercenaries, Peasant Levies and Criminals, count as Castle Forged (+1 to result of Fighting tests for long range attacks)

Minstrel's Hall
Requirement: Small Town or larger community; Small Castle or larger defensive structure
Investment: 10
Time: 5D6 Months
The Lord is frequently visited by minstrels, mummers and other performers, spreading the news and gossip of the land. Whenever a House Resource increases or decreases by 3 or more the House's Influence Resource also increases or decreases respectively by 1.

Trading Inn
Requirement: Road
Investment: 10
Time: 6+1D6 Months
Whenever your Wealth Resource increases due to a House Fortune roll, the Trading Inn means it increases by a further +1. This effect is cumulative with that of a Marketplace (or Marketplace and Port).

Moneylenders
Requirement: Trading Inn, Marketplace, Large Town or larger Community
Investment: 10
Time: 4D6 Months
Gain a +1 to House Fortune rolls and whenever your Wealth Resource increases due to a House Fortune roll, the Moneylenders means it increases by a further +1. This effect is cumulative with that of a Marketplace (or Marketplace and Port) or a Trading Inn.

In addition the House can borrow up to 500 Gold Dragons (or 3 points of Wealth Resource that have to be spent immediately on Power Holdings) for each point of Land and Wealth Resource put at risk. These points are not actually lost unless the House defaults on the loan. However until the House repays the 500GD, with interest of 50GD per house fortunes roll between loan and payment the House can not increase either Lands or Wealth. This applies to both house fortune rolls or spending Glory. If the House defaults on a loan or has more than half it's Land or Wealth Resource at risk they gain the (Houserule UPDATED) Debt Drawback until this is reduced.

Trading District
Requirement: Moneylenders, Port, Guilds, Small City or larger Community, Small Castle or larger defensive structure, Trained Garrison, minimum (effective) Law Holding of 41
Investment: 20
Time: 12+2D6 Months
The City is frequented by merchants from the Free Cities and beyond drawn by it's wealth, the power of the Lord and the opportunities both offer. They base themselves in the network of marketplaces and warehouses that make up the Trading District. Except during winter (when the weather is too harsh for foreign merchants to travel to your lands) gain +2D6-6 to House Fortune rolls and whenever either your Wealth or Influence Resources increase due to a House Fortune roll, the Trading District means they increase by a further +1D3. This effect is cumulative with Marketplace (or Marketplace and Port), a Trading Inn, or a Moneylenders.

In addition the House can borrow up to 2500 Gold Dragons (or 8 points of Wealth Resource that have to be spent immediately on Power Holdings) for each 3 points of Land and Wealth Resource put at risk. These points are not actually lost unless the House defaults on the loan. However until the House repays the 2500GD, with interest of 250GD per house fortunes roll between loan and payment, the House can not increase either Lands or Wealth. This applies to both house fortune rolls or spending Glory. If the House defaults on a loan or has more than half it's Land or Wealth Resource at risk they gain the (Houserule UPDATED) Debt Drawback until this is reduced.

Organised Crime
Requirement: Law Holding lower than 41
Investment: 10
Time: 4D6 Months
Any domain may suffer from a degree of organisation from it's bandits, smugglers, wreckers, raiders, street thugs, etc. Your House suffers from them to an extent that they almost rival the Lord in the running of the domain. Your Law Holding is effectively increased by 10 when making House Fortune rolls and the modifier from the Enmity of a Neighbouring House can be ignored due to smuggling, corrupt officials in the neighbouring House, etc. However the first point of any increase to the House's Wealth Resource has to be discounted due to corrupt officials in the House, protection rackets, etc. In addition the cost to increase Law Resource is doubled.

House Fortune modifiers:
Winter: -(10 + one tenth of Population Resource)
War: +3D6-10
Enmity of a neighbouring House: -5 (this is cumulative for each House there is enmity with)

Updated House Fortunes Table
2 or lower - Disaster
3 - Curse
4 - Decline
5 - Disaster
6 - Growth
7 - Extra Taxation
8 - Decline
9 - Growth
10 - Curse
11 - Decline
12 - Boon
13 - Extra Taxation
14 - Growth
15 - Decline
16 - Blessing
17 - Growth
18 - Curse
19 - Extra Taxation
20 - Blessing
21-22 - Growth
23 - Curse
24-25 - Decline
26-27 - Blessing
28 - Extra Taxation
29 - Boon
30 - Curse
31-32 - Growth
33 - Decline
34-35 - Growth
36 - Extra Taxation
37-38 - Growth
39 - Curse
40-41 - Growth
42 - Decline
43 - Blessing
44-45 - Growth
46 - Extra Taxation
47 - Boon
48 or more - Blessing

House Fortune extra events:
Taxation: Once a year the House is taxed to fund the King and the Glory of Westeros. Instead of making a House Fortunes roll the House loses Wealth Resource equal to the Head of the House's Status Ability.
Personal Catastrophe: When more than half the dice rolled (before bonus dice are removed) come up as 1's a personal catastrophe such as a fire, outbreak of disease or bad food, etc. has befallen the House. Everyone named in the House's Resources e,g, Head of the House & their wife/husband, Heir and any other siblings, Maester, Septa, etc. that is not a PC must make a ROUTINE (6) Endurance test. Any that fail perish in a manner determined by the GM and players. If the Head of the House perishes, replace the rolled event with a Curse. If any other member of the House perishes, replace the rolled event with a Decline and that resource will not be available for the next House Fortunes roll.
Extra Taxation: If this event is rolled, the House loses Wealth Resource equal to half the Head of the House's Status Ability, rounding up. If this is rolled twice in succession reroll until a different result is obtained.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Middlefinger » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:19 am

Brilliant!

I love the taxation rules.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Daerys » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:22 am

Pytorb, your work is excellent. Can i translate your work to put it on french forum?
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Pytorb » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:07 am

Thank you, I'm glad you like them.

Yes if course they can be translated as long as they are attributed. I've done a few more inspired by the other posts on this thread like Brothel and Drydock, both of which are brilliant. I'll post those up shortly.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Pytorb » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:27 am

With many thanks to Brudewollen here's my (virtually unchanged) version of Drydock

Drydock
Investment: 15
Requirement: Lumber, Small Castle or larger defensive structure, Coast or Island
Time: 12+2D6 Months
Whilst it is possible to build and repair ships without a dedicated series of drydocks, these make it so much faster to produce them. The cost of warships is reduced to 4 Power Resource each and the cost of a Trading District is reduced to 15 Wealth Resource.

And with thanks to Iron Legs here are my versions of Brothel and Gambling Den

Brothel

Requirement: Small Town or larger community, Road or Port
Investment: 5
Time: 1D6 Months
Whenever the House's Wealth Resource increases due to a House Fortune roll it increases by an additional +1. However your Law Holding is effectively decreased by 1 when making House Fortune rolls.

Gambling Den
Requirement: Large Town or larger community, Road or Port
Investment: 10
Time: 1D6 Months
Gain a +1 to House Fortune rolls and whenever the House's Wealth Resource increases due to a House Fortune roll it increases by an additional +1. However your Law Holding is effectively decreased by 3 when making House Fortune rolls.

And here's something new, which may or may not be too complex and may or may not work...

Trade Contract
Requirement: Road or Port
Investment: 5 (to another House) or receive 5 (from another House)
Time: 1D6 Months
Gain access to a Wealth Holding from this list: Mine, Quarry, Arable, Vineyards, Lumber or lose access to one of the same that is currently in your Domain in return for 5 points of Wealth Resource.

If you are in receipt of a Wealth Holding one possible additional effect of a Decline in House Fortunes would be for the contract to end, meaning you lose access but have your Wealth Resource restored to you. Also one possible additional effect of a Curse on your House Fortunes would be for the contract to be breached, meaning you lose access and not have your Wealth Resource restored to you (which may, if you wish, provoke your enmity or initiate a feud).

If you have sold access to a Wealth Holding one possible additional effect of a Decline in House Fortunes would be for the contract to end, meaning you regain access to your Wealth Holding but have to return the Wealth Resource. You may also chose to do this as a House Action. You may also chose to breach the contract, regaining access to your Wealth Holding and keeping the other House's Wealth Resource. You will lose 1D3 Influence for your lack of honour and breach of trust and may well result in a feud with the other House or provoke their enmity.

and finally an new Land Holding:
Navigable River: Cost +4 and allows merchant vessels to sail inland from the coast, as long as there are navigable rivers all the way along.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Ser Moryn » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:22 pm

Wow, yeah. Those are incredibly impressive.

I'm getting to a point where my sellswords might get some land and go legit, so I'll have to start half-assing the economics. This'll be very helpful :D
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Daerys » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:35 am

I was translating your work when I realize some problem with the cost of population for the holdings.
Sometimes cost is to expensive for the holdings, sometimes they re not.

One example :
a shipwright, it some way basic for the infrastructure and only need a lot of men to work.

a drydock is also poor in infrastructure but need a lot of men.

A port you need more infrastructure and not a lot of men, I mean not 5.. I was more thinking about 3.
The reason si that population can't growth like the other resource. Wealth can go up and fall a lot of time in a year. Population move not so quickly...

So I have think of some addendum to your house rules. Why not use a 30% / 70%, ratio. we can consider that some of the wealth needed is used to hire the men who was lacking.


Sorry for my bad english.
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Pytorb » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:58 pm

Yes there is a disconnect between Wealth Holdings (and Land Holdings) and the population needed to use the wealth holdings to thier optimum. I was costing the Wealth Holdings in purely game terms relative to the costs published already. My linking of communities in Land Holdings back to the Population Resource and Wealth Holdings to communities was my way of addressing that. A 30/70 rule would be another.

It might also be a good idea to say that certain Wealth Holdings are mutually exclusive and/or impose a limit on the number of Wealth Holdings in each portion of land to stop a small Land Holding being unfeasibly overdeveloped.

In additon I was wondering if both a Toll Bridge and a Mill are missing from the list of Wealth Holdings? I was also wondering if the second point of taxation should go to the House of the Lords Paramount (Tully, Stark, Lannister, Martell, Tyrell, Greyjoy and Targaryen) rather than the King as thier part of the tax to sustain thier own pwer and the maintain thier feudal responsibilities?
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Re: New Wealth Holdings

Postby Daerys » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:06 am

Salt Marsh
Investment: 10(pop 6 / wealth 4)
Requirement: Coast
Time: 18+2D6 Months
The Salt Marsh is one of the best way to recolt one of the valuable resource, Salt.
Salt is use in cook and also to stock food.
Salt Marsh give a +1 to fortune roll and give a additionnal +1 in population resource if House Fortune's roll make it grows. It gives also a +1 in wealth if Market is build.
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