Quick Start Rules Errata?

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Quick Start Rules Errata?

Postby Mad Professor Ludlow » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:00 am

On page 11 under Training it says "If you meet the rank required by the weapon, you lose those bonus dice on your Fighting Test".

Should that be "lose those penalty dice" instead?

Also, the Septa pregen character is pretty heavily armed (mace, large shield, heavy crossbow). I know I need to re-read the books, but I don't remember any mention of weapon-wielding Septas. Is that a mistake?
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Re: Quick Start Rules Errata?

Postby timemrick » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:57 am

I've found a handful of minor typos, but none that make the text confusing, so I won't bother listing them.

On page 25, under What Passes in the Night, both references to Alertness should be Awareness.

The Bandit Camp map shows more tents than bandits. I doubt they have enough supplies to need two extra tents.

However, the only big, glaring error that I've found is that Corvin's stats do not appear in the adventure. The text mentions that he fights from horseback (like Ander) and has Stealth 4/Sneak 1B and Alertness [=Awareness] 2 (like Wort and Cole), so neither of those stat blocks seems entirely appropriate for him.
Mad Professor Ludlow wrote:On page 11 under Training it says "If you meet the rank required by the weapon, you lose those bonus dice on your Fighting Test".

Should that be "lose those penalty dice" instead?

I was wondering about that myself. As written, weapons with a Training stat effectively have 1P or 2P to all attack rolls, but if you have the minimum rank listed, you reduce your bonus dice before rolling the test rather than applying the penalty dice after dropping bonus dice. These weapons are more difficult to use, so it makes a certain sense that even proficient users find them harder to use than simpler arms.

Overall, I like the rules in the Quick-Start. I'm not sure if I'd ever run or play a campaign set in Westeros, but SIFRP seems very well suited to any setting with a medieval tech level and low or no magic. I'll likely get the core rules when available, and I may pick up the campaign guide if it seems to be a good reference for reading/rereading the novels.
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Re: Quick Start Rules Errata?

Postby Mad Professor Ludlow » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:11 am

timemrick wrote:However, the only big, glaring error that I've found is that Corvin's stats do not appear in the adventure. The text mentions that he fights from horseback (like Ander) and has Stealth 4/Sneak 1B and Alertness [=Awareness] 2 (like Wort and Cole), so neither of those stat blocks seems entirely appropriate for him.


This is what I threw together:

Corvin
Abilities
Animal Handling 3
Stealth 4 1B Sneak
Fighting 3 1B Long Blade
Attributes
Combat Defense 4 (6 with Shield) / Armor Rating 5 (mail)
Health 6 / Move 4 Yards
Longsword 3+1B / 3 Damage
Shield 3 / 1 Damage; Defensive +2

Note: Combat Defense and Move may be too high (by 1), but I adapted him from Wart & Cole, and if I'm reading things right, theirs are off, as well.

I left off Awareness 2 'cause it's the default value.
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Postby sinisterthings » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:08 pm

Page 8, under Extended Tests:

A character climbing a steep cliff may have to test Athletics several times to reach the top, while a maester researching the lineage of a family purported to come from the Blackfyre pr etenders might need several successful Knowledge tests to find the evidence he needs.

Just a minor typo (a space between "pr" and "entenders").

Page 13, Example:

Normally, a longsword deals damage equal to the attacker’s Athletics rank, plus 1. Gerald has rank 4, so a regular successful attack (with one degree of success) would deal 4 damage.

If Gerard has rank 4 Athletics, shouldn't a successful attack (with one degree of success) deal 5 damage?
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Postby sinisterthings » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:01 pm

The formating for combat actions isn't consistent. For example, on page 14, you see the two different methods:

Combining Attacks (Greater)
Assist........................Lesser

Page 14, Two-Weapon Attack
Simply add the weapon’s Off-hand modifier to your primary weapon’s damage.

Page 14, Charge:
You take a –1 penalty die on the attack, but increase the weapon’s damage by +2.

In both these cases, the bonus damage is applied to the weapon's base damage, rather than the final damage after multiplying by the degree of success. To avoid confusion, I'd recommend using the term "base damage" (as you do on page 11) when appropriate.
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Re: Quick Start Rules Errata?

Postby Lord Mormont » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:34 pm

timemrick wrote:The Bandit Camp map shows more tents than bandits. I doubt they have enough supplies to need two extra tents.


I suspose what this 'error' in the Bandit Camp map does allow for is 'room' should the GM wish to up the number of bandits. That is likely to happen if I were to run this scenario, largely because another modification I would be making is to give the PCs a small bodyguard of npc guardsmen to boss around. I just feel its kind of appropriate considering that one of the characters is the actual lord of his house.
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Postby Helderik » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am

I cannot find what the 'unwieldy' weapon quality means (see the Longbow). Is it missing or am I missing something?

Any idea on what it means?

Thanks ...
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Re: Quick Start Rules Errata?

Postby Patchface » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am

timemrick wrote:
Mad Professor Ludlow wrote:On page 11 under Training it says "If you meet the rank required by the weapon, you lose those bonus dice on your Fighting Test".

Should that be "lose those penalty dice" instead?

I was wondering about that myself. As written, weapons with a Training stat effectively have 1P or 2P to all attack rolls, but if you have the minimum rank listed, you reduce your bonus dice before rolling the test rather than applying the penalty dice after dropping bonus dice. These weapons are more difficult to use, so it makes a certain sense that even proficient users find them harder to use than simpler arms.

I'm with timemrick on this; I don't think it's an error in the quick start. However, some clarification (maybe with one or two examples in the corebook) would help greatly here.

E. g., what happens if a character fights with the Tower Shield and has Fighting 4 (Shields 1B). The character receives one penalty die (since he only has 1 in his Shields specialty when needing 2), that much seems clear. But does he lose his Shields bonus die at the same time? Or does he have one penalty die and one bonus die on his tests?
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Postby Zapp » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:12 am

Lets discuss the training rule separately :)
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Postby Patchface » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:30 pm

There seems to be an error in the Move example on p. 10:

Hal has Run 2B and a movement of 6; instead he should have Move 5 (one extra yard for every two bonus dice of the Run specialty).

Accordingly, with Bulk 3 from his Full Plate, he should have Move 4 (instead of 5).
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Postby Patchface » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:15 pm

A clarification on how Sprint is calculated might be useful:

On p. 15 it says that a character can sprint up to four times his/her Move. I suspect this refers to Move before Bulk is subtracted from it? Because that's the only way the Sprint numbers for Lord Rhys and Septa Alanna are correct (with Bulk subtracted from Sprint after multiplying Move by 4).

If so, Ser Merik's Sprint number should read 13 (4 times 4, minus Bulk 3).
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Postby Matt H » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:44 am

The example for Two-Weapon Attack mentions the character using a dagger in her off hand, then later calls it a dirk. Which could be an attempt at flavorful writing, if it weren't for the fact that a dirk is a seperate entry on the weapon chart. The stats seem to match that of the dagger.
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Postby Patchface » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:38 am

Squire Jonah carries a "small sword" in her gear, but there is no such thing in the weapons table on p. 10.

Based on the attributes given for Jonah's attack, the small sword stats might be:

Weapon: Small Sword
Specialty: Short Blade
Training: -
Damage: Athletics (or Agility -1)
Qualities: Fast
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Postby Patchface » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:33 pm

[from another thread]

Matt H wrote:I was expecting to find a rule saying you could only take one normal Attack action per round, but I didn't see anything like that.


I hope this isn't asking too much, but since this issue will be affecting every single gaming group from now until October...

Could one of the developers (or playtesters) please let us know if characters are limited to one normal Attack action per round, even though it's a lesser action?

Thanks in advance! :)
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Postby RJS » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:39 pm

Helderik wrote:I cannot find what the 'unwieldy' weapon quality means (see the Longbow). Is it missing or am I missing something?

Any idea on what it means?

Thanks ...


An Unwieldy weapon isn’t designed to be used while mounted, so when astride a steed, you take –2D on Marksmanship tests involving Unwieldy weapons.
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Postby RJS » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:43 pm

Patchface wrote:[from another thread]

Matt H wrote:I was expecting to find a rule saying you could only take one normal Attack action per round, but I didn't see anything like that.


I hope this isn't asking too much, but since this issue will be affecting every single gaming group from now until October...

Could one of the developers (or playtesters) please let us know if characters are limited to one normal Attack action per round, even though it's a lesser action?

Thanks in advance! :)


Working on this.
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Postby Patchface » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:48 am

Just to wrap this up...

RJS wrote:
Patchface wrote:[from another thread]

Matt H wrote:I was expecting to find a rule saying you could only take one normal Attack action per round, but I didn't see anything like that.


I hope this isn't asking too much, but since this issue will be affecting every single gaming group from now until October...

Could one of the developers (or playtesters) please let us know if characters are limited to one normal Attack action per round, even though it's a lesser action?

Thanks in advance! :)


Working on this.


Steve Kenson wrote:The rule is going to be "one attack action per round" – if you want to attack multiple foes, you need to use Divided Attack.
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Postby Inquisition Symphony » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:06 pm

don't know if this is the right place to ask but what does a horse move? any stats for the horse too?
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Postby Patchface » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:41 am

During a combat round, if you spend two lesser actions on two Move actions, you move up to twice your base Move. However, if you take a Sprint action, which is a greater action, you can move up to four times your Move during the same time interval.

Since it takes the same amount of time to Move twice as it does to Sprint, why would anyone use two Move Actions in one round when he could move twice that distance by taking the Sprint Action? Shouldn't there be a drawback to taking the Sprint action, such as losing some of your combat defense?
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Postby Patchface » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:41 am

The distances and difficulties given in Maester Rudolphus' Master of Ravens quality make the despatch of ravens over normal Westerosi distances impossible.

As GRRM himself has stated, Westeros is a continent the size of South America, so the +3 difficulty increase per 25 miles seems way too hefty; the 50 miles starting distance likewise seems too low.

Example: We know that the Wall is 300 miles (or 100 leagues) long. To send a raven from the Shadow Tower in the west to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea in the east, a maester would have to succeed on an Animal Handling (33) test :!: , something that is only possible for a maester with an ability rank of 6 or more ("one of the best in the world"), and only if he rolls mostly sixes.

With the rule as written, sending a raven from Winterfell to Castle Black would be impossible, not to speak of distances like the Eyrie/Winterfell, King's Landing/Winterfell or the Citadel/anywhere in the North. However, we know that, in the novels, ravens do carry messages over such distances.
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Postby Zapp » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:42 am

Patchface wrote:As GRRM himself has stated, Westeros is a continent the size of South America, so the +3 difficulty increase per 25 miles seems way too hefty; the 50 miles starting distance likewise seems too low.

And in "reality" it is even bigger than that.

George just did the South America comparison as a rough estimate, not as an authoritative statement.

And so if you use the length given for the Wall instead, as that is one instance where we have a fixed measurement, Westeros ends up being 5000x20000 km instead, which is more than double the size of South America!

The SA comparison is still useful, of course, but imagine a SA stretched to double its north-south length, and it becomes even harder to see how this ability can span any northern to any southern location...
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Postby Keltheos » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:03 pm

Artistic license?

;)

Artistic/GM license?
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Postby Patchface » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:13 pm

Zapp wrote:And so if you use the length given for the Wall instead, as that is one instance where we have a fixed measurement, Westeros ends up being 5000x20000 km instead, which is more than double the size of South America!

No. I don't know how you figured out your numbers, but if you took the 300 miles of the Wall as a fixed measurement, the distance from the Wall to the coast of Dorne would be about 3.000 miles (or about 5.000 km), give or take a few hundred miles. To be safe, one could add up to another 1.000 miles (1.600 km) for the territory to the north of the Wall.
In the real world, the distance from Venezuela's northern shores to the south of Chile is approximately 4.500 miles (about 7.000 km). So the South America comparison is actually not that far off (if only meant to give a general idea).

Anyway, that wasn't really the point I was trying to make. In order to keep this thread clear of non-errata related stuff, I suggest you start another thread if you want to further discuss distances, which I would be happy to do. :)

To repeat my actual point: I believe that the Master of Ravens quality needs to be fixed.
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Postby Steve Kenson » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:47 pm

Patchface wrote:To repeat my actual point: I believe that the Master of Ravens quality needs to be fixed.

Indeed. Your point has been made, and noted.
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