Death to the Mountian!

Talk about Green Ronin's A Song of Ice and Fire RPG, based on George R.R. Martin's best-selling fantasy series. Winter is here!

Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Gurkhal » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:12 pm

SPOILER!


[spoiler]Ser Gregor fights in a major war from the frontlines unharmed, a major sign of a Lannister defeat is that the Mountain is forced to retreat from a battle and in general ser Gregor sees ALOT of armed action, and very much against armed and trained opponents. He also fights in a duel with an extremely skilled opponent fairly successfully in the end, although he was loosing for a time. Bronn, who is cherished as being pretty skilled, is shown to not be willing to go up against the Mountain.

Hell, even Jaime thinks that he could beat the Mountain in a way that shows its no simple feat by far but rather a significent achivement. That's how I read it at least.

In short Gregor is far more deadly on the field of battle than I think Legate gives him credit for.[/spoiler]
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Roadspike » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:00 am

Legate wrote:But, I just don't see a 7 ability score in this case.


I wasn't suggesting that his Fighting should be a 7--I think that would be a ridiculous suggestion to make. I think that his Strength should be a 7, because he is shown to be the biggest and strongest man in the Seven Kingdoms, and is repeatedly stated to have superhuman strength. That's pretty much the defining characteristic of an ability at 7.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Legate » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:25 am

"Ser Gregor fights in a major war from the frontlines unharmed..."

Who did he fight, knights or regular House Troops? It just seems to me that Ser Gregor is the type of guy who picks the fights he can easily win.

Sure everyone is terrified of him. He is an imposing figure, all I am saying is that he is just that; when you fight someone you have been condition to think of as unbeatable then you will probably not win against him. Now, if he was able to do the samething while wearing light armour instead of that Sherman Tank he goes to battle in, then I would change my opinion of him, but I think he would be gutted like a fish.

He is a bully (my opinion and the way he is described in the books) and bullies are cowards.

"We escort him to the duengeon and finish him off. Such a shame he died of his wounds like that."

Personally, I like this ending...He died like the dog he is.

Just my 2 Stags worth.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby BeardedDork » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:48 pm

Legate wrote: Who did he fight, knights or regular House Troops? It just seems to me that Ser Gregor is the type of guy who picks the fights he can easily win.

All comers. His eventual defeat came in the form of a poisoned spear from another of the greatest fighters in the land, and Gregor won that fight as well, since he killed the Red Viper of Dorne and was in turn wounded to presumably die "off screen" of poison.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Legate » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:01 pm

"...and was in turn wounded to presumably die "off screen" of poison."

Oh, well dead is dead.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Flagg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:18 pm

Legate wrote:Oh, well dead is dead.


Sort of ;)
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Legate » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:35 pm

Flagg wrote:
Legate wrote:Oh, well dead is dead.


Sort of ;)



Oh, don't tell me one of Red Hoodoo priests slapped some of their raise dead mojo on him.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby SerJerk » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:09 pm

Nobody's said that he was an amazing tactician, swordsman, or warrior. He was a terrific brute who was very capable. He is routinely described as being a freak of nature not only for his size, but also his strength. Having 4D in Fighting sounds about right, but 4D in Athletics for the most powerful knight in Westeros?

His intimidation/reputation factor I'm sure won him a lot of fights on its own, but his power is how he got the reputation more than his size. And no matter what, he was still at worst a top-tier knight in terms of martial skill. Don't forget his tourney performances, he was no pushover.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Legate » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:59 pm

"... he was still at worst a top-tier knight in terms of martial skill. Don't forget his tourney performances, he was no pushover."

Yep, his skill with a lance is certainly superb...he put into Ser Hugh's throat with expert percision. And that over hand slash to the back of his horses neck...artistry in motion. :o
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Gurkhal » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:01 am

Legate wrote:"Ser Gregor fights in a major war from the frontlines unharmed..."

Who did he fight, knights or regular House Troops? It just seems to me that Ser Gregor is the type of guy who picks the fights he can easily win.


I think he can kill almost anyone pretty easily. So knight, peasant or man-at-arms makes no matter because Gregor slices them down as they stand. Gegor fights all comers and comes out victorious almost every time.

The guy you are thinking about is Amory Lorch who is more like how you are painting Gregor.

Legate wrote:Sure everyone is terrified of him. He is an imposing figure, all I am saying is that he is just that; when you fight someone you have been condition to think of as unbeatable then you will probably not win against him. Now, if he was able to do the samething while wearing light armour instead of that Sherman Tank he goes to battle in, then I would change my opinion of him, but I think he would be gutted like a fish.


Tywin notes from early on that Gregor is a terrifying opponent in battle.

Legate wrote:He is a bully (my opinion and the way he is described in the books) and bullies are cowards.


I disagree entirely from my reading of the series. Gregor was a brute and a thug, and far more than just some bully.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Paedrig » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:58 am

I agree with you concerning the brute/thug - but i also think that Gregor is a coward too. :wink:
He never appears to me clever or able to make a good plan.
But beeing a coward does of course not mean that he is not pretty dangerous or intimmidating...
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Kajani » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:09 am

Here I disagree. Coward would mean a man who is afraid, and that he is surely not, even many of his brutal acts are against helpless people. When the Lannister-Army was repelled during the attacks over the Red Fork (that attack which Cat had seend from the distance and in which the defending forces were lead by her brother) he was wounded because he was leading on of the charges, and also during the battle between Tywin and Roose Bolton he was in the frontline.
What you maybe mean is that he looks not very cunning, so you may call him a fool or so... but not a coward I think.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:23 am

I think there is also confusion on the term coward here.
One side, seems to me, sees somebody as a coward for picking on the weak, more along the lines of moral cowardice while the other seems to interpret cowardice as the antithesis to bravery.
I must say i disagree on both accounts. The Mountain is neither afraid nor does he pick on the weak because he cannot pick on the strong.
He picks on everybody and fights all comers. I doubt he even cares much for living or dying but for fighting.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Paedrig » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:34 am

O. K., my failure was that i thought, that coward also mean something like "idiot" etc.
While english is not my native tongue and i do not use such words very often... :oops:
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby SerJerk » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:41 am

Legate wrote:Yep, his skill with a lance is certainly superb...he put into Ser Hugh's throat with expert percision. And that over hand slash to the back of his horses neck...artistry in motion. :o


Actually, this highlights exactly what I'm talking about. His skill with a lance was superb; he purposefully killed Ser Hugh. As Sandor said, "Gregor's lance goes where Gregor wants it to go." And the horse-killing highlights why he has a reputation for being the most powerful knight in Westeros - a single blow to decapitate a fully grown, mailed stallion? Not many could replicate that.

He was a brute (he IS the brute squad), a thug, and a bully - but definitely not a coward, and not a pushover who relied on his reputation alone to win fights.
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Re: Death to the Mountian!

Postby Zorbeltuss » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:07 am

Battle and mano-a-mano is not the same.

Gregor is big and strong, but not faster than most men. Bronn and Jaime among others probably could defeat him, Oberyn did (and would have survived had he not exposed himself by wringing out that confession).

On a battlefield, there's little space to dodge his blows, and then it's game over. Plus more armor=less chance of getting killed/wounded in that sort of scenario.

It's quite possible that the mountain is the deadliest warrior in Westeros, though it was shown that he isn't the best swordsman.
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