Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

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Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Duskin » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:06 am

* Spoilers!*

Hi,

For my first try at this RPG I’ve decided to take a bit of a twist to the setting (not always the wisest move on a first go). My setting would be the Spring after the book series, thus avoiding any clash with the storey line.

I’m nearly finished the 5th book (pg 800) so I thought I would take the time line form that point and drive history forward entirely in favour of Cersei Lannister. I was hopping for some help with ideas on how Westeros would look mid spring with a short winter and Cersei on top.

Here are my thoughts so far:
- Tommen sits the Iron Throne and Cersei is behind him as the true power. Cerseis foes in Kings Landings have been defeated by intrigue.
- The Others are stumped at the wall and the Black Watch is pretty busy trying to assimilate all the Wildlings they let through.
- Bolton holds the North, not sure if he should reluctantly bow to the South or be Independent.
- Ironmen loose greater part of their fleet gambling on trying for Dany, but remain independent. Raids of the Ironmen are a constant threat on the West Coast now.
- Dorne is independent.
- Dany and her Freedmen are beaten in Slavers Bay.
- The Reach, The Westerlands, Stormlands, Riverlands and Kingslanding are all loyal to the Throne and held by houses made puppet to Cersei.
- I’m not sure what would happen to the Vale with Little Fingers.

As a note, I’m not actually a fan of Cersei, but I think if she won out Westeros would be a place fractured and ready to boil with rebellion and intrigue. Pretty much I want her to win because she is incompetent.

Also, could someone explain the Influence Stat in House creation? Does one need to spend influence in order to have an heir, or is that merely if one wants a notable heir (PC or major NPC)?

Cheers,
Duskin
Last edited by Duskin on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Kajani » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:27 am

Edit: Sorry

Spoiler

I think you may make it even more complex by adding the existence of small or greater groups of supporters of the Targaryen (by the way, what happened to Aegon's son and the Golden Company in your scenario?) - the men from Massey's Hook for example did as far as I know never bow before Robert and stay independent even during his rule - in her heart loyal to the old line, but also fighting each other. I think it is hard to believe that Cersei could beet them. Similar - more hidden - groups may exist in other areas.

A possible future for the Vale could be that Sansa and Harold Hardyng rule the Vale as Lord and Lady, with Baelish either driven aside or working still in the shadows. This would put the vale in confrontation with the southern parts as with the North (Boltons claim as Lord of the North comes only because the "wedding" of his savage bastard with "Sansa") It may be that White Harbour and some other parts have changed sides and now support the Vale, loyal to the (last?) Stark and - even more important - driven by hatred and mistrust towards Bolton and his Frey-friends.
Last edited by Kajani on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Tao Jones » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:39 am

Some warning of spoilers might be in order here...
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Duskin » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:01 am

Thanks Tao Jones, I added the “Spoilers” warning.

I was thinking the Golden Company would land in Dorne and fight the Iron Throne into a stand still. Arianne Martell would marry Aegon’s Son, thus merging Martell with Targaryen.

Covert and overt support of Targaryen would be rampant throughout Westeros, and would eat up a lot of the Iron Thrones attention. This constant distraction would allow the Iron Islands and other regions to remain independent.

I rather like your view of the Vale Kajani. One quick note though, Bolton married the fake Arya, not Sansa. I could certainly see parts of the North declaring for the Vale when Sansa becomes known. An independent Vale would also be interesting.

Also, Stannis would be defeated in the North of course.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby DaimosofRedstone » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:02 pm

Spoiler:
Cersei has not won as long as Littlefinger is about.
I could see him returning to the court though and playing the human violine that is Cersei very skillfully.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Kajani » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:38 am

Right, I have mistaken the one Stark girl for the other...

DaimosofRedstone: Sure Littlefinger is much more cunning than Cersei, but this mean not that he live longer - or that not another foe could bring Cersei down. Many depends on luck, even for Littlefinger, and sometimes he seems a little bit TOO clever. And of course there must be the chance that the old prophecy could come true (you know, what Cersei had heard, that a young queen would steal her success). Maybe Sansa (or Arianne) may take this part in that timline...?
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Gurkhal » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:18 pm

Duskin wrote:* Spoilers!*

Hi,

For my first try at this RPG I’ve decided to take a bit of a twist to the setting (not always the wisest move on a first go). My setting would be the Spring after the book series, thus avoiding any clash with the storey line.

I’m nearly finished the 5th book (pg 800) so I thought I would take the time line form that point and drive history forward entirely in favour of Cersei Lannister. I was hopping for some help with ideas on how Westeros would look mid spring with a short winter and Cersei on top.

Here are my thoughts so far:
- Tommen sits the Iron Throne and Cersei is behind him as the true power. Cerseis foes in Kings Landings have been defeated by intrigue.
- The Others are stumped at the wall and the Black Watch is pretty busy trying to assimilate all the Wildlings they let through.
- Bolton holds the North, not sure if he should reluctantly bow to the South or be Independent.
- Ironmen loose greater part of their fleet gambling on trying for Dany, but remain independent. Raids of the Ironmen are a constant threat on the West Coast now.
- Dorne is independent.
- Dany and her Freedmen are beaten in Slavers Bay.
- The Reach, The Westerlands, Stormlands, Riverlands and Kingslanding are all loyal to the Throne and held by houses made puppet to Cersei.
- I’m not sure what would happen to the Vale with Little Fingers.

As a note, I’m not actually a fan of Cersei, but I think if she won out Westeros would be a place fractured and ready to boil with rebellion and intrigue. Pretty much I want her to win because she is incompetent.

Also, could someone explain the Influence Stat in House creation? Does one need to spend influence in order to have an heir, or is that merely if one wants a notable heir (PC or major NPC)?

Cheers,
Duskin


A very interesting scenrio but remember that Cersei's victory conditions is total subjugation of everything and everyone around her. Hence I would say that its a setting where Cersei has either won the War of Three Queens or is dominating in King's Landing. That way the rest of your scenario would both work and you can have intrige and stuff going on throughout the realm.

Otherwise I like it alot because its certainly very different from the other things going on.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Paedrig » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:36 am

Perhaps even Cersai could learn what is possible and what is not...

She allways seemed to me a little bit silly/over the topp in her actions (at least in the books, in the TV series at least in the first one she appaers to be a little bit more intelligent and even - to some extent almost sympatic so to speak :wink: ).
Allthough i like most of Martins Char (or think that they are at least well drawn if i do not like them) Cersei was one of the characters which appears a little bit drawn to mono so to speak.

But this did not mean that she must be so indefinitly. People can change and learn over time...
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Gurkhal » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:04 am

Paedrig wrote:Perhaps even Cersai could learn what is possible and what is not...

She allways seemed to me a little bit silly/over the topp in her actions (at least in the books, in the TV series at least in the first one she appaers to be a little bit more intelligent and even - to some extent almost sympatic so to speak :wink: ).
Allthough i like most of Martins Char (or think that they are at least well drawn if i do not like them) Cersei was one of the characters which appears a little bit drawn to mono so to speak.

But this did not mean that she must be so indefinitly. People can change and learn over time...


I wish it was true but I can't see Cersei changing in any productive way no matter the stimulation.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Carriker » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:13 am

Paedrig wrote:Allthough i like most of Martins Char (or think that they are at least well drawn if i do not like them) Cersei was one of the characters which appears a little bit drawn to mono so to speak.

Possibly. As with any character, it's important to remember what it is that makes her tick. It strikes me that Cersei is motivated by two core facets of who she is.

1. Bitterness At A Woman's Place. She repeats this pretty frequently - how frustrating she finds it that as a "mere woman" she isn't allowed the freedom to play the Game with the same aplomb men are. She's accustomed to maneuvering around those limitations (and even using them to her advantage, like a good player), but she hates them. Frankly, there's a part of me that wonders if her love of Jaime isn't partially a deep desire to *be* him. She certainly claims more than once that she'd do a much better job of being him than he does. :) Everytime she's run afoul of the Game, it's been because she's a woman, really. How many male characters do you think would have been forced to take the High Septon's Walk of Shame in the last book there?

2. Love Of Her Family. Say whatever else you will about her, but Cersei loves and is loyal to her family (though that is secondary to her loyalty and love of herself). Part of this is undoubtedly about the fact that one's House is the axle around which the Game spins, but there's clearly more to it. She defers to her father and wants, almost more than anything else, to gain his approval. Even her overt hatred of one of her family - Tyrion - is motivated by the loss of her mother at his birth.

These two things can combine in some extremely unfortunate ways, as we've seen in the last book. But they also have the potential to combine in some extraordinarily effective ways. Remember that a great deal of this character's action have been formed by the fact that she's been desperate (trying to get Jaime back) and grieving, from what happened at Joffrey's wedding (to try and avoid spoilers as much as possible). People don't make the wisest decisions when they're in that state of mind. History suggests that what we're seeing of Cersei's behavior is an aberration of her normal approach to things, and I suspect that she's reaching some lows that will either destroy her or wholly remake her, in terms of her ability as a player of the Game.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Kajani » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:21 am

That may be, but who could ever feel an ounce of pity for Cersei? I for sure could not. The way she worked to place Tommons bride in more or less the same trap in which she landed in the end (torture of that minstrel etc.)... Hasn’t she herself not said to Ned Stark that in the Game you either win or die? In that way she could praise herself lucky, at least for now. She sat an trap but was caught herself. In that way she was lucky that she had "only" to loose some fingers to get free.

I think you had forgotten her maniacal fear for the old prophecy of the maegi at Lannisport - I think that is responsible for her stupid behaviour against the Tyrell’s. It would be better if she had tried to charm them...

And did she really love her family? She even shows not much respect for her uncle, a man who had worked over years to be a loyal servant of her father. Even him she could only see as subordinated to her. I think the only person she really loves is she self. Sure she seems to love her eldest son (the other children she show much lesser affection), but it was an ape-love which does not much good for Joff.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby ceranko » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:47 am

Cersei is to stupid to win. She burns every bridge and sees every ally as a threat. She was born to lose. And she will.
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Re: Post Game of Thrones: A Setting Were Cersei Wins!

Postby Paedrig » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:53 am

Yes, but this is really a shame. She might have real potential (as a figure). But she is one of the more static characters (or even getting worse than better).

But of course if you (like in the scenario which is created here) built your own type of Westeros some years in the future you could give her a chance to at least become a little bit more clever.
Making her more interesting. Until now she is a mostly uninspiring figure (at least for me).
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