Making a fullplate+ flail knight

[SvenS]

I'd say a tower shield is too big to use mounted for sure. The norman style ones would be large shields IMO.
Thx again for the ideas guys keep em coming =)

[coldwind]

I'd say a tower shield is too big to use mounted for sure. The norman style ones would be large shields IMO.
Thx again for the ideas guys keep em coming =)

To be fair, weapons (including shields) that are too big to use on mounts have the Unwieldy trait. Tower shields do not, and thus, the "tower shield" described in the books is not those that are so large to be unusable while mounted.

Am i the only one who think that carrying a TOWER SHIELD as normal defense weapon might look a little bit...strange? (just concerning the question of logic or even aesthetic )

Of course you can always go the way "if is not forbidden in the rules - do it" but as far as i know a tower shield are something like a mantlet or pavise (read also the description in the core rule book). Something you hide behind and take shelter against arrows and bolts. But nothing a man on a horse (or a normal fighter on the ground) should (or could) wear in the regual close combat.

And to compare a man on horse (with a war lance) with someone on the ground is always a little bit inba i think...

I promise, I would never use a char riding with a tower shield. And i would never let a player char face a enemy with such a combination.

To be clear, the book has rules for mantlets and turtles in the Warfare chapter, so in so far as the rules are concerned, tower shields are different from them.

[Legate]

Sounds like the Black Knight of myth.

[coldwind]

Hmm... just throwing this out...

Ser Harv Thresher
Middle Aged Warrior

Agility 3
Animal Handling 3
Athletics 5 Strength +3B
Awareness 3
Cunning 3 Memory +2B
Endurance 5
Fighting 4 Bludgeoning +3B
Knowledge 3
Language 3
Persuasion 2 Intimidate +2B
Status 3
Thievery 1
Will 4

Destiny: 5 (3 invested)
Benefits: Sponsor, Anointed, Bludgeon Fighter I
Drawbacks: Flaw - Endurance*, Haunted, Disturbing Habit

Intrigue:
Defense: 9
Composure: 12
Initiative: 3D+2

Combat (unarmored/full plate)
Defense: 11 / 5
AR: 0 / 10
AP: 0 / -6
Bulk: 0 / 3
Move: 4yds / 3yds
Health: 15
Initiative: 3D / 3D-6

Flail: 4D+1B; 11 base dmg; Powerful, Shattering 2, Two-handed

In play:
Ser Harv is a solid wall. You can easily hit a wall, but it stands there unfazed.

He doesn't care about pleasantries, he just wants what he wants. Usually, he gets it, either through violence, or just the hint of violence. He's not stupid, but he knows his best weapons.

During intrigues, he threatens (6D+2B), but is less successful when subtlety is required (2D-1D on all other Influence tests). He also relies on the his station - be sure to use Anointed to boost his Intrigue defense in a critical exchange.

In combat, when armored, he's not likely to go first. Thus, he needs to make sure his opponent's first hit is minimized and his first one is maximized. Anointed in the first round boosts his Combat Defense to 10; nothing spectacular, but removes 1 potential degree of success, and forces potential crits into the 20+ range. If have 'em, spend 'em - spend Destiny to give -1D on opponent's attack if you feel he's still skilled enough to reliably beat that 20 threshold with tons of 6s.

Note, that with Health and AR combined, your opponent needs to deal 25 damage before you even really need to think about an injury, let alone a wound.

Your first attack, including Haunted, is 4D+3B, averaging 16-17. Against most opponents that somewhat focus on defense, that's probably 1 degree of success, occasionally 2. So, either 11 or 22 damage. If he's wearing minimal armor, that'll hurt. If he's wearing full plate himself, sure that'll get reduced, but then, you likely have another degree or so of success, so it evens out. In any event, plenty of damage, which will likely result in at least an injury, unless he's built similarly to Ser Harv. Also, with Shattering 2, the opponent's combat defense is reduced for the rest of the battle, so even though he loses the +2B from Haunted in following rounds, he's at worst staying even with his average of 1 or 2 degrees of success in the second round, and slowly improving it.

[Paedrig]

I always thought that the great shield is similar to the ancient scutum or the great teardrop like shields used (f. e.) by the normans. I have no problme picturing a mounted fighter with one of this.
But a tower shield...
At least in the description in the core rule book it sounds as rather...static. Something to hide behind. Nothing you carry on a horse or (like a roman legionary) even use as a weapon...

[Roadspike]

All of this assumes, of course, that the knight can afford a set of plate armor. For that, you're going to have to boost up his Status pretty well. I don't have the rules with me at work, but probably around 4 Status, so long as you get a little lucky with your roll and don't mind not having much gear besides a shield, flail, and armor (maybe not even a horse).

[Paedrig]

Hmm...you are right.
3.000 ss are not so simply to get. At least if you do not have the "Wealthy" benefit, than it is fair easy.
And of course a heado of house/ landed knight char could get the money by other means i think.

[DaimosofRedstone]

At least in the description in the core rule book it sounds as rather...static. Something to hide behind. Nothing you carry on a horse or (like a roman legionary) even use as a weapon...

Well, shields ARE to hide behind .
But i get what you mean. Shields, Tower shields that is, are not marked as 'unwieldy' though.
I don't know, i probably would not allow somebody with a door strapped to his arm to utilize a horse.

[Roadspike]

Hmm...you are right.
3.000 ss are not so simply to get. At least if you do not have the "Wealthy" benefit, than it is fair easy.
And of course a heado of house/ landed knight char could get the money by other means i think.

Yup, that's a roll of at least 15 on your Status check, just for the plate armor. Seems like only tourney champions, Heads of House/Heirs (high Status), and people who have great houses paying for their gear (or at least second-tier houses like the Mallisters, Freys, Redwynes, etc) are likely to have plate armor, and mostly after chargen then.

But I consider that a good thing... always nice to have something to work towards. It's no fun (to me, at least) if your character starts with everything he or she needs (Fighting 6 + 5B, Status 5, plate armor, a couple of horses...).

[BeardedDork]

Unwieldy doesn't really apply. The quality imposes a penalty to rolls associated the weapon while on horseback, it doesn't seem like it would be much less convenient to shield slam from horseback than from foot.

[DaimosofRedstone]

With a shield weighing a quarter as much as myself i would noz do any hasty movements on horseback. Even with stirrups, if your center of gravity moves too much to one side, you fall.

[superbat_99]

Depending on what was defined as a heavy shield the Romans did have cavalry hexagonal shields that were similar in size to the rectangular foot soldier's shield. So there is a possibility that it would be feasible.

[DaimosofRedstone]

Depending on what was defined as a heavy shield the Romans did have cavalry hexagonal shields that were similar in size to the rectangular foot soldier's shield. So there is a possibility that it would be feasible.

Yes, the feasibility is completly reliant on whether a 'tower shield' is something like 9 kilos and 1m or a bit more high or if we talk about what would best be describe as a door turned into a shield.

[Paedrig]

Remember between a normal shield and a tower shield we did have the great shield type.
If you argue that such shields like the "norman" shields (formed like a teardrop) or the roman scutums or big cavalry shields are a tower shield - what did you count as a great shield?
For me such types of shields (scutum norman shield) are great shields. A shield is certainly smaller - like the typical round shields of ancient and medieval times etc.
And a tower shield (remember the description in the core rule book) is more something like a pavise...

[DaimosofRedstone]

And a tower shield (remember the description in the core rule book) is more something like a pavise...

"Tower shields are heavy items used to block missile fire and
provide cover from enemies’ attacks."
Now thats not much to go on.

[Paedrig]

What is a great shield for you?
Would you call a scutum/ "norman" shield etc. a great shield or a tower shield?

[SvenS]

Remember you need to fit in 3 smaller size shields too
Do we really need 5 kinds (if the tower shield is not the pavise kind)?

[DaimosofRedstone]

I count only 4 (buckler, shield, large shield, tower shield).
Buckler covers little more than your hand, 'shields' would be all targe(s?) (no bulk, very little defensive), large shields would be (to me) something like round shields (think vikings) and heater shields, large shields would be your wooden kite and tower shields and tower shields would be the same just with metal.
But then thats me.
And the monster which are known as pavese would be mantlets to me.

Edith:
Just realised i have to be even more specific (turns out nomenclature are wildly different from german to englsih).
So by 'buckler' i mean a metal shield no larger than 20 cm in diameter.
By 'round shield' i mean a wooden shield of around 50 cm in diamter up to 70 cm.
By kite shields i mean these and by tower shields i mean something a kin to the roman scutum.

[superbat_99]

Also the narrator could rule that you take a penalty to the defense bonus for not training in the shield. This would reduce the effect of the shield and probably lead the character away from a tower shield.

[SvenS]

I count only 4 (buckler, shield, large shield, tower shield).
.

Yes 5 was if your counted the pavise type as non tower shield aka warfare special equipment as someone suggested above =)

[DaimosofRedstone]

Count me humbled.

[Paedrig]

Remember that beside the Pavise there were also some sort of "shields" (if you can still call it a shield) which were even heavier. A pavise could be carried by your own - while this type (just like the mantlets) did have wheels and were sometimes made of metal...

By the way i would think round shields (like vikings etc. used it) are normal shields, while greater shields are certainly something that cover more of your body (celtic, roman, "norman" shields).

But if we all have different ideas what might be a "great", a "normal" and even a "tower" shield is it obvious why there is no agreement...

[jyster]

I made this guy over a year ago, so not sure if he is legal or not.

Middle Aged

Blood of the Rhoyne - +2 CD
Expertise - Bludgeons +1D

Combat Defense = 12+4 Large Shield +2 BotR - 6 Plate Mail = 12
Flail = 5D+1D+2B-2D Using it 1 Handed Damage = 7+3=10

Abilities
4 Agility (1B Quickness)
3 Animal Handling (1B Ride)
4 Athletics (3B Strength)
4 Awareness (1B Notice)
3 Cunning
2 Deception
3 Endurance
5 Fighting (2B Bludgeons)
2 Healing
2 Knowledge
3 Marksmanship (1B Bows)
2 Persuasion
4 Status
2 Stealth
3 Survival (1B Track)
1 Thievery
2 Warfare
3 Will

[ceranko]

I had an NPC with Buldgeon fighter 1, 2, 3. Oh my god I just about killed the entire party with this guy. I had to make a character that could challenge the pc's they all had high sword D6, this guy cleaned house he was also a warg and controlled four wolverines I mixed bear and boar stats. Beware the wolverines! Buldgeon fighter is deadly once you have level 3.

[Kajani]

Don't you thin that the wolverines are a little to good? After all he is "only" a large weasel. He clearly hunts much greater animals, but confront only smaller predators like lynx and young wolves, although he may challange adult predators in fight for slain prey. But as far as I know the greates wolverines had a length of around 1 m or so and a weight of (very rarely) 55 lb. Compared to bears and boars which could bring up to several hundred lb...
I would rather look after the stats of wolves and dogs, perhaps with a greater endurance...