Status

[aprewett]

When we started the campaign I set my landed lord pc's status based from the Houses Influence which is only 3, but according to char. generation it should be 5. I have brushed over this problem but know the player is starting to get more into intrigues its becoming a problem. To me 5 is the much better number but I decided to go with the house system.
But now I think I might set up two status levels, one for the loca area and one on the national level, so this would be 5 local and 3 national. May be the reprint will fix this.
How does this sound?

Allan

[coldwind]

If a character has a higher Status than his house would normally allow (ie, character generation gave him a 5 but the House's influence resource only allows a 3), then the character keeps his higher Status, but suffers a penalty die for each number in difference. In this case, he'd be rolling a 5 Status with 2 penalty dice.

Essentially, he's an impressive figure whose House has not really done impressive things (or have done a lot of unimpressive things to lower their reputation).

If you still want him to have better chances at things on the local scene, you could just make it much easier for him to get bonus dice with neighboring lords.

[aprewett]

Thanks, I will run it past the Players.

[Paedrig]

I must confess i found the whole status thing a little bit brokenand even unlogical. You can almoust never achieve the status for your house that it is said 'a lord should have': 5-6 as far as i remember. In reality most minor houses influence only allow a status of 3 perhaps 4 - and given the fact that it is said that member of the house who are not the lord/ lady should have a not so high status this might get almost absurd low status for noble men/ women.

We did change the rules a little bit by deciding that a normal lord of a minor house might have 3-4 status (and the other members of the house not more if not with a very convincing cause).

[Kival]

I must confess i found the whole status thing a little bit brokenand even unlogical. You can almoust never achieve the status for your house that it is said 'a lord should have': 5-6 as far as i remember. In reality most minor houses influence only allow a status of 3 perhaps 4 - and given the fact that it is said that member of the house who are not the lord/ lady should have a not so high status this might get almost absurd low status for noble men/ women.

All heirs have minimum status 3. That's not "absurd low". Regarding other members there is no clear rule but nothing forbids all noble members of the family to have at least Status 3.

[Carriker]

All heirs have minimum status 3. That's not "absurd low". Regarding other members there is no clear rule but nothing forbids all noble members of the family to have at least Status 3.

Exactly. A Lord can have Status based on the House's Influence. His Lady and Heir can have up to (Lord's max Rating -1), his second son (or runner-up heir) or first-born daughter (outside of Dorne) can have (Lord's max Rating -2), etc.

The minimum for someone who is acknowledged as nobility is usually 3. In a Minor House, the lord might have a 5 Status (or 4, if they're fairly minor or young). His heir and Lady might have a 4, and anyone else in his House can have a 3.

In a Major House, the Lord might have a Status 6. His Lady and heir are Status 5, his next son and first daughter a 4, and everyone else a 3.

[Kival]

Also to clear this up for Paedrig: Status 3 for the Lord means he's actually not a Lord but only a landed Knight. Under this circumstances I see no problem that except for his direct heirs family members have only Status 2.

[aprewett]

My problem started with the houses infleunce only giving Status 3, and his knightly commander of the Houses troops only gets status 2. I much prefered the more granular 1 -10 scale in character generation, but went with the house rules, now I am not so sure.
In Char. Generation the lord of the house should have 5, and that make sense the older commander, well respected would have at least 4.
Why the two different systems any way?

Allan

[Kival]

My problem started with the houses infleunce only giving Status 3, and his knightly commander of the Houses troops only gets status 2.

Where did you get, that the knightly commander of the House's troop only gets Status 2? What's exactly the background of the knight?

In Char. Generation the lord of the house should have 5, and that make sense the older commander, well respected would have at least 4.
Why the two different systems any way?

That's the system for more short-made characters where you don't take care a lot about the House and inter-house powerrelations. The System brought by the house creation rules are meant to represent more detailed rules for Status. I'd not take the examples too literally though. Some Major houses who're not great houses could be considered Status 6 for example (House Wyman, House Bolton, maybe House Frey). I'd increase royal family staus +1... in the narrator kit the Status seemed pretty logical for me... can look it up later/tommorow.

[aprewett]

It was awhile ago we started but I must have read somewhere that other nobles in a house-hold, that work for the House's Lord, would have one less status?
Could be faulty memory.

To be honest I don't follow what people are saying.
Carriker says;
A Lord can have Status based on the House's Influence. His Lady and Heir can have up to (Lord's max Rating -1), his second son (or runner-up heir) or first-born daughter (outside of Dorne) can have (Lord's max Rating -2), etc

So my Status 3 Lord's grizzled military commander might only have 1. It just did not seem to have any granuality to allow for the small folk and merchants.
Its not really an issue to me as I will just work out some solution, but it just seems odd that the game has two systems and does not seem to address (could be wrong), how to work between the two.

Allan

[Lord Ben]

I got the impression those statuses were for the NPC's at that position and PC's used their own.

[Kival]

It was awhile ago we started but I must have read somewhere that other nobles in a house-hold, that work for the House's Lord, would have one less status?
Could be faulty memory.

I can't remember anything like that. Also not only the position in the new household is relevant also where the guy comes from: Is he a second, third son from another family? A cousin of yours...? Or just a Hedge Knight who proved himself?

Carriker says;
A Lord can have Status based on the House's Influence. His Lady and Heir can have up to (Lord's max Rating -1), his second son (or runner-up heir) or first-born daughter (outside of Dorne) can have (Lord's max Rating -2), etc

So my Status 3 Lord's grizzled military commander might only have 1. It just did not seem to have any granuality to allow for the small folk and merchants.

As already stated there is a Minimum Status of 3 for all via influence bought heirs. There are also explizitly rules for characters who have a higher personal status then their house might allow them.

[aprewett]

Thanks.
I don't have my notes in front of me, but he is the second or third brother of the previous manor lord.
We started with the characters in the published adventues, as my son is the same age as the young lord Rhys, so it fitted well. Another player is Ser Meric, and we made the family tree with his older brother being Ser Nolan, the father of Lord Rhys recently deceased.

There is Ser Amren the oldest brother who turned down the position of lord in favour of Ser Nolan, there was another brother younger than Ser Nolan and then Ser Meric the youngest.

So I will have to look at what has been mentioned here and see how it fits in.

Allan

[Kival]

And the house has less than 20 influence?

[Danestar]

And the house has less than 20 influence?

Its is rather easy to do, half of the realms have -5 to influence so assuming the Historic Events balance out you need an average of 3.5 on 7 D6 to get 20 or less influence.

Perhaps Table 6-5: Influence & Status needs to be updated for the next version of the rules.

[aprewett]

Correct less than 20.

[Carriker]

In the case of extremely low Influence Houses (which are usually landed knight households), the minimum Status of 3 still applies to anyone who is considered of the House. So, the Lord is Status 3, his Lady is Status 3, his heir is Status 3, his old uncle who serves as castellan is Status 3, etc.

Status 3 is the minimum Status for anyone considered noble or semi-noble (knightly, generally). Status 2 are smallfolk, and Status 1 are basically outcasts (new members of the Night's Watch and most wildlings, in fact).

[aprewett]

Thanks, he will have to work on his Influence.

Allan

[Zorbeltuss]

Way I understand it is that if you use house creation rules, you need to buy slots for heirs and such with influence, and then PC's can fill those if they want status above 2.

[Kival]

Way I understand it is that if you use house creation rules, you need to buy slots for heirs and such with influence, and then PC's can fill those if they want status above 2.

I disagree.

a) You can always have a higher status then the house allows, you have penalty dice then though.

b) If you're not a son/daughter of the Lord, you can still have at least Status 3 if you're a noble. The influence bought status only determines the status of (the Lord and) his heirs.

[Lord Ben]

Are the example characters in the book wrong then when they have 4 status for a Maester, etc? Or is their maximum better than a 3rd son's, etc? Or are they from a status 7 house too I suppose.

[Carriker]

Are the example characters in the book wrong then when they have 4 status for a Maester, etc? Or is their maximum better than a 3rd son's, etc? Or are they from a status 7 house too I suppose.

Maesters have a Status that ranges from 4 to 7: 4 for most maesters, 5 for those attached to great Houses, 6 for an archmaester and 7 for the Grand Maester.

[Mat]

So...let me see if I understood well:

- Status 1 = outcast
- Status 2 = smallfolk/hedge knight
- Status 3 = low nobility/semi nobility (landed knight, rich merchants), retainer/member of a House
- Status 4 = Minor Lord, Maester, sons of Higher Status lord
- Status 5 = Major Lord, sons of Higher Status lord, Lord Commander of Night Watch, Maester of Great House.
- Status 6 = Great Lord, sons of King, Queen, Council members, ArchMaester, Commader of Royal Guard.
- Status 7 = King (I would put in also Warden of the North/East/West/South), Grand Maester, High Septon.

I scaled everything with 7 as maximum rank in Status. Those in black I am not sure.
If I miss some important character please add them.

[Carriker]

These are the numbers as printed in the Game of Thrones edition of the SIFRP core book.

0: Slave
1: Common smallfolk, Initiate of the Faith, standard Man of the Night’s Watch, most squires, low-born foreigner
2: House retainer, lesser merchant, acolyte maester, hedge knight, foreign merchant prince, established Man of the Night’s Watch
3: Landed knight, Merchant, sworn sword, veteran member of the Night’s Watch, member of a minor house
4: Lord of a Minor House, maester of a minor house, junior member of the Faith, member of a noble house, heir to a minor house, important foreign dignitary, officers of the Night's Watch
5: Lord of a powerful Minor House (often one with bannermen), Merchant Prince, maester in a great house, Castle Commanders and Firsts of the Night’s Watch, member of a great house, heir to a house, foreign noble
6: Lord of a Major House, officer of the Faith, archmaester, Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, heir to a great house
7: Lord of a Great House, member of the Small Council, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Grand Maester, High Septon
8 Member of the royal family, Warden of the East, North, South, or West
9 Queen, Crown Prince, King’s Hand
10 King of the Seven Kingdoms

[Mat]

Sorry...but again I missed something.

Is a Merchant Prince someone coming outside of Westeros but incredibly rich or whoever is a merchant with huge wealth (thus also Westeros people)?

As written in the book...smallfolk have just 1 on Status...thus 1 is the "Normality"...isn it?