Damage and Armour

[Warden-UK]

I've been trawling through the threads, and there was some issue about damage and armour.

It was, long story short, platemail becoming less effective the higher it got, and certain weapons (knife), coupled with a 2 Athletics, not being able to hurt/damage a full plated knight.

Does anyone know if these two rules have been tweaked, or has anyone houseruled them?

Finally, is there an errata listing out for the latest print edition?

Thank you

[Aran MacFiona]

You can search the forum and you'll find what you want. Or better you can read carefully the rules and you'll understand that there's no need to tweak the rules.

[Warden-UK]

You can search the forum and you'll find what you want.

As I said, I've trawled the forums already and after doing so, I still have questions.

Or better you can read carefully the rules and you'll understand that there's no need to tweak the rules.

I don't have the rules to read, thus the reason for my post.

Is there a situation wherein individuals wearing certain armours cannot be hurt by certain types of weapons, ever?

And is it the case that platemail loses its effectiveness the higher it goes?

Like I said, I don't fully understand which is why I'm asking.

Thanks

[Pytorb]

If you are using the critical rules there is always a chance that even a person with an unimproved Fighting skill armed with a dagger can defeat an opponent in full plate. Attacking as a group coordinating properly there is always a chance that a group of people with unimproved Fighting skill can defeat at opponent in full plate. The chances may not be high (which is probably as it should be) but they are definitely there.

[Carriker]

Is there a situation wherein individuals wearing certain armours cannot be hurt by certain types of weapons, ever?

Absolutely. But that is far more of a matter of Defense and the Ability rating used to attack than it is of Armor Rating and weapon damage.

If you cannot get enough degrees of success to multiply the base damage of your weapon to a high enough total to overcome an opponent's armor, you are incapable of hurting him, yes. There is a reason there are figures in Westeros that no one in their right mind would think of attacking one-on-one.

And is it the case that platemail loses its effectiveness the higher it goes?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking. "the higher it goes"...what is the "it" you're referring to here?

The rules in Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying do a pretty fair job of reflecting situations in which superior opponents, with superior weaponry are nigh-unkillable against lesser individual opponents. Jaime Lannister, the Mountain, the Red Viper of Dorne, Barristan Selmy and similar men of renown for their fighting prowess are rightly feared.

That said, they also reflect fairly well the situations in which these men might be still overcome: where mobs or armies are concerned. The Assist rules reflect the kind of increased chance of getting hurt even the best of these warriors stand. Even average fighters with no real training (Fighting 2) offer a +1 to Fighting tests if they're helping someone else. This can make the difference between such individuals being untouchable, and them taking a bit of damage every turn.

Additionally, there are other Combat Actions that benefit a weaker opponent. Grappling an enemy with the Pin action is extremely useful, especially when fighting in a group. If one or two of the group Pin an enemy, everyone else gains a +1D to their Fighting tests and the opponent must subtract his Agility from his Combat Defense. So, some of the group dogpile him, and everyone else gets in some stabs with a suddenly much better chance of hurting him.

Other actions like Knockdown (see Advanced Combat actions) can be extremely useful, as well, particularly since it is an Athletics test against your opponent's passive Agility - and short of water dancers, most fighting types don't have a very high Agility, making them susceptible to this move. Once down, opponents gain a +1D on attack rolls against the downed opponent.

If the opponent's Combat Defense is just too high to hit, the Distract action is of great facility, forcing him to subtract his Awareness from his Combat Defense with a Cunning test against the opponent's passive Will.

The key to success, of course, is stacking these actions. A group of opponents can confuse, knockdown and then dogpile a single opponent in short order. Perform a Distract to reduce his Combat Defense, followed by a Knockdown to grant everyone a +1D on attacks. Others perform a Pin, granting another +1D (for a total of +2D - that's not nothing) and reducing his total Combat Defense to only his Athletics (as Distract subtracts his Awareness from his Defense, and Pin subtracts his Agility).

At this point, any others left in the group start going to work with their weapons on the fallen, pinned, confused enemy. Each one is making a Fighting test at +2D against a Combat Defense that equals only the fallen opponent's Athletics - you're sure to get more than a few solid hits in there.

This is the mob scene in multiple points of the Song of Ice and Fire storyline, where the knight is buried under attackers, prevented from moving and stabbed until he stops moving.

[Reinard]

Carriker, I think that by And is it the case that platemail loses its effectiveness the higher it goes? he references the fact that eventually a degree of success is going to do more damage that the AR bonus that platearmor provides compared to a -1 AP armor.
If you are going to score 1 extra success against AP -1 / AR 2 armor, then you are going to socre 2 extra successes against AP -6 / AR 10 armor. So if your base damage is for example 10 - then the guy in the heavier armor is at disadvantage.
In order for someone to have 10 base damage though with anything but powerfull two handed weapon (that is made exactly for overcomming heavy armor) - he has to be pretty extraordinary person and you aren't going to fight many if any like him.

But you don't get to regularly fight Athletics 6-7 opponents when you get higher experience level. You get to fight armies and deadly plots and against them the plate armor remains as effective or uneffective as ever. SIFRPG is not a combat focues system, it is narrative one that still has a pretty decent combat system to back it up. But if you are looking after a combat every single sesion - look for different system.

Having said that - it will grealy help having actual rules for castle-forged armors.