Freeport 4E Companion?

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Freeport 4E Companion?

Postby memorax » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:09 pm

Any news on wheter or not GR plan to release a 4E companion to Freeport? I want to buy the Pirates Guide to Freeport but will hold off until I know for sure if there will be a 4E companion for it. Hopefully by now there is some somrt of news concerning GR and 4E.
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Postby Pramas » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:24 pm

Wizards of the Coast has not yet been able to show publishers the new Game System License that will be used for 4E. Until we see the terms under which we'll be publishing, it's hard to make plans. I'd say it's likely we'll do a 4E Freeport Companion, but it may not be until next year.
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Postby memorax » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:53 pm

Then my purchase of Pirates Guide to Freeport will be put on hold indefinately until a 4E Freeport Companion is released. As much as I want to get the book I'm not going to buy it until then.
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Postby Talwyn » Mon May 05, 2008 4:01 am

*bump* 4th edition is almost there, so are there any news whether or not you will be releasing a 4e companion for Freeport? I will be attending a 4e promo adventure, next weekend, and am quite curious about how well the new rules will work for Freeport.
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Postby timemrick » Mon May 05, 2008 2:08 pm

Pramas-sama has said both here and in his blog that GR can make no decisions regarding 4E until they can see the final text of the GSL and the full 4E rules.
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Postby Pramas » Mon May 05, 2008 3:44 pm

memorax wrote:Then my purchase of Pirates Guide to Freeport will be put on hold indefinately until a 4E Freeport Companion is released. As much as I want to get the book I'm not going to buy it until then.


It has gotten more likely, as the latest news makes it possible for us to do 4E books while continuing on with M&M and True20. However, the new license must be used by product line and it's unclear how Freeport will be affected by that. We'll need to see the final language of the new license to assess this. The good news is they've promised to release the license on June 6.
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Postby memorax » Tue May 13, 2008 7:43 am

Pramas wrote:It has gotten more likely, as the latest news makes it possible for us to do 4E books while continuing on with M&M and True20. However, the new license must be used by product line and it's unclear how Freeport will be affected by that. We'll need to see the final language of the new license to assess this. The good news is they've promised to release the license on June 6.


I'm glad to hear this. I hope that a 4E Freeport companion is possible. I might still get the PGFP it's just that with a 4E companion it would make my life a DM easier.
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Postby DigitalMage » Mon May 19, 2008 2:54 am

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Postby DigitalMage » Mon May 19, 2008 2:54 am

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Postby DigitalMage » Mon May 19, 2008 2:55 am

Having read the stuff about the GSL on RPG.net I got the impression that a 4E Freeport Companion would not be possible - it could be debated whether Freeport is a Product Line or not (if it is, it is one that intersects with other product lines such as True20).

However it seemed pretty clear from WOTC statements that the GSL would not allow different versions of the same product to be released for both the OGL and GSL - and I would have thought that WOTC would consider the Freeport Companion to be a single product with various different versions, two of which are OGL (True20 and the d20 one).

Of course I am not a GR employee and I haven't seen teh GSL yet so I may be pleasently surprised, but for now it looks to me like WOTC have written 4E out of the Freeport setting.
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Postby Pramas » Mon May 19, 2008 10:04 am

I think it's really going to depend on the language of the license, which we won't see until June 6. How they will legally define what a line is will be interesting to see.
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Postby NeilFord » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:31 pm

Chris

I wonder in light of your comments on The Game's the Thing Episode 32, whether it might be possible for another publisher to take on producing a 4e Companion? That would keep it separate from your Freeport line and hopefully not fall foul of the GSL.

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

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Postby memorax » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:57 pm

Any news you can tell us? Or is it still to early to ask?
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Postby Pramas » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:05 pm

memorax wrote:Any news you can tell us? Or is it still to early to ask?


We still haven't seen the new license. It was supposed to be revealed June 6, and now we've been told "early this week." So no, nothing to say just yet.
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Postby memorax » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:22 pm

Now that the GSL has finally been released can you tell us anything?
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Postby Pramas » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:28 pm

memorax wrote:Now that the GSL has finally been released can you tell us anything?


Dude, it's been up for 10 minutes.

First glance makes it not look so good for Freeport, but there may be options.
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Postby Zapp » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:34 am

Pramas wrote:Dude, it's been up for 10 minutes.

:lol:

At least your reply was equally prompt! Look forward to your future comments, Chris! :)
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Postby DigitalMage » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:31 am

I have read it and to be honest it doesn't look good for a 4E companion.

Teh key part seems to be:
GSL wrote:If Licensee has entered into the “Open Gaming License version 1.0” with Wizards (“OGL”), and Licensee has previously published a product under the OGL (each an “OGL Product”), Licensee may publish a Licensed Product subject to this License that features the same or similar title, product line trademark, or contents as such OGL Product (each such OGL Product, a “Converted OGL Product”, and each such Licensed Product, a “Conversion”). Upon the first publication date of a Conversion, Licensee will cease all manufacturing and publication of the corresponding Converted OGL Product and all other OGL Products which are part of the same product line as the Converted OGL Product, as reasonably determined by Wizards (“Converted OGL Product Line”).
Emphasis mine.

This to me implies that a 4E Freeport companion would be considered a conversion of an OGL product, specifically the d20 Freeport Companion, as it would have a similar title, product line trademark and content.

Creating such a product would mean that GR would then have to cease producing all other OGL products that are part of the Freeport productline (therefore it would also mean no more True20 companion).

Unfortunately it also seems that if GR had done a RuneQuest or Fate companion under the OGL those too would also be part the "cease all manufacturing" clause if they did a 4e Freeport product.

Please note that I am not a lawyer and don't represent either GR or WOTC.
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Postby Zapp » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:29 am

On the surface of it, GR would have to kill all other systems/companions if it wanted to do 4E Freeport. But then again, Chris did say "there may be options". I think it would be prudent to give the man a chance to sleep it over before you start running naked through the streets! :green:

It would be interesting to read some insightful comments on what this will do to the business - whether WotCs bet (to relegate all non 4E settings to the fringe) will work or not. My guess is that the industry heavyweights have hold off on commenting until the final deal is here. Which is now.
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Postby Pramas » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:02 am

So yeah, the way the GSL is worded it makes it hard to imagine how we could do a 4E Freeport Companion and keep our publishing model intact. It would be possible, I suppose, to do a generic pirate sourcebook and at least point back to Freeport, but something structured like our current companions might invite trouble. Hmmm.
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Postby Pagan priest » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:52 am

I understand that Paizo is doing an open gaming sourcebook based on their own concept of a 3.5 type system (or something like that...). Perhaps that might be the way to go for various products.

Given the whole way that WotC has been acting with 4E, I would love to see everyone, publishers and players alike, tell them to pound sand. Even the timing of their announcement made for serious problems. (My FLGS lost a LOT of money from lost sales of D&D stuff for xmas, nobody bought when they knew that 4E was coming.)

From everything that I have heard or read about this, the bean counters escaped from their cubicle farm and took over the head offices, and nobody sent them back where they belong.

And the rules themselves... Now, I'll grant you that I have not actually read the real rules in any depth, I have only seen previews. As far as I can tell, they have turned the game from a role playing game to a miniatures battle game with character advancement. Too many of the powers that characters have only make sense when you think of them in terms of a miniatures battle game played on a grid. For example: "My warlord hits the dragon for 30 points of damage, so your paladin and the ranger each get to move 30 feet." WTH? How can you possibly explain that in story form? :roll:
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Postby memorax » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:46 pm

Pramas wrote:So yeah, the way the GSL is worded it makes it hard to imagine how we could do a 4E Freeport Companion and keep our publishing model intact. It would be possible, I suppose, to do a generic pirate sourcebook and at least point back to Freeport, but something structured like our current companions might invite trouble. Hmmm.


I hope you can do 4E stuff for Freeport. If not I may still get the 3.5 stuff for Freeport as I like it as a setting to use if I ever have to run a 3.5. game. I wanted to ask if all you need to use FP is just the core 3.5 books. I'm asking because I was made an offer I could not refuse for about 90% of my 3.5 collection. I said a price as a joke and the buyer was prepared to offer me what I wanted on the spot. I'm also not that impressed with the Pathfinder stuff from Paizo.
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Postby memorax » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:30 pm

Pagan priest wrote:Given the whole way that WotC has been acting with 4E, I would love to see everyone, publishers and players alike, tell them to pound sand. Even the timing of their announcement made for serious problems. (My FLGS lost a LOT of money from lost sales of D&D stuff for xmas, nobody bought when they knew that 4E was coming.)


I would be very surprised if GR did nothing at all with 4E. They would be insane imo not to. The only game line that does well in my neck of the woods is M&M. Freeport is a very far second and TrueD20 is almost non-existant. As for players 4Ed sales in 3 of the LGS I go to is still strong so it's not going to happen.

MY FLGS also lost sales to 4ED. Their just no blaming it completely on 4ED. With Amazon giving between 24-34% discount on rpg books and with torrent sites where you can download pirated copy of PDF of D&D books it's more than just 4ED.


Pagan priest wrote:And the rules themselves... Now, I'll grant you that I have not actually read the real rules in any depth, I have only seen previews. As far as I can tell, they have turned the game from a role playing game to a miniatures battle game with character advancement. Too many of the powers that characters have only make sense when you think of them in terms of a miniatures battle game played on a grid. For example: "My warlord hits the dragon for 30 points of damage, so your paladin and the ranger each get to move 30 feet." WTH? How can you possibly explain that in story form? :roll:


Without at least reading the books how can you really talk about the game. The preivews just give you a fraction of the information. I used to think like that when it came to 3ED. After reading the books and playing a game I changed my opinion. If your going to go around telling otheras that 4ED is a bad game than at least make an effort to read the books. Otherwise imo your making false claims about a product you hardly know anything about.
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Postby timemrick » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:40 am

memorax wrote:I wanted to ask if all you need to use FP is just the core 3.5 books.

I don't believe it's necessary to own more than the three core rulebooks to run any of the 3.0 or 3.5 Freeport books. Wizards released very little beyond those three books that is Open Content, so GR was pretty much limited to using just the core rules.

A few Freeport books (such as Hell in Freeport and Black Sails) use material from other GR titles (The Book of Fiends in these two examples), but they include enough information to run the adventure without owning those supplements. Also, Hell in Freeport has a few new prestige classes that are fully detailed in Focus in Freeport articles, and updated to 3.5 in a later Focus (all of which are free PDFs).
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Postby memorax » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:37 pm

timemrick wrote:I don't believe it's necessary to own more than the three core rulebooks to run any of the 3.0 or 3.5 Freeport books. Wizards released very little beyond those three books that is Open Content, so GR was pretty much limited to using just the core rules.

A few Freeport books (such as Hell in Freeport and Black Sails) use material from other GR titles (The Book of Fiends in these two examples), but they include enough information to run the adventure without owning those supplements. Also, Hell in Freeport has a few new prestige classes that are fully detailed in Focus in Freeport articles, and updated to 3.5 in a later Focus (all of which are free PDFs).


Thanks for the information. Would you which Freeport books are 3.5 and which are 3.0.? As I'm only interested in the 3.5 stuff.
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